410 for HD
- Thread starter Max007
- Start date
rottieman33
New member
I look at it this way its a gun you point it at anybody thats breaks in to your house there going to run or be in a lot of pain after you shoot them.
kaylorinhi
New member
Heck, bird shot close-enough would work!
Good? I don't know if I would use that word.
Adequate? Perhaps. .410 slugs are comparable to a spicy pistol cartridge. 5 00 pellets aren't too bad.
The thing is, though, is that if you are going to go with a shotgun for defense, the only reason to go with a .410 would be for light weight or low recoil.
At similar velocities, what do you think is going to be more effective?
A 1/5 oz slug, or a 1 oz slug?
5 00 pellets? Or 9 pellets? Or how about 12 pellets?
Adequate? Perhaps. .410 slugs are comparable to a spicy pistol cartridge. 5 00 pellets aren't too bad.
The thing is, though, is that if you are going to go with a shotgun for defense, the only reason to go with a .410 would be for light weight or low recoil.
At similar velocities, what do you think is going to be more effective?
A 1/5 oz slug, or a 1 oz slug?
5 00 pellets? Or 9 pellets? Or how about 12 pellets?
I think the 410 get the short end by people comparing it to the 12 ga. Well we all know it's no 12 ga. The winchester 410 3 inch slugs are about 110 gr. going about 1800 ft/sec. Well according to the box. Even at 1600 ft/sec., that's a really spicy pistol round.
http://mcb-homis.com/slug_410/index.htm
I found this link, that has come charts and graph comparisions. You can decide for yourself. I realize the 410 has some limitations, but mostly for hunting. We're talking about HD though. Maybe you don't like shooting a 12 ga. or don't like the recoil. I don't hear anybody saying a 38 spl isn't enough for HD. So a 3 inch shell of 00 buck, 5 pellets, is just shy of 5 38 spl at once at a lot higher velocity. I think that's plenty. I found this too, i'ts more about hunting. I still think it's interesting, especially the part about comparing the 410 to 10mm, 357, and 44-40.
http://www.fourten.org.uk/mwslug.html
I'm not trying to start a debate here. I just think the 410 is a good HD weapon. And probably could kill a dear out to 60 yds. Maybe farther.
http://mcb-homis.com/slug_410/index.htm
I found this link, that has come charts and graph comparisions. You can decide for yourself. I realize the 410 has some limitations, but mostly for hunting. We're talking about HD though. Maybe you don't like shooting a 12 ga. or don't like the recoil. I don't hear anybody saying a 38 spl isn't enough for HD. So a 3 inch shell of 00 buck, 5 pellets, is just shy of 5 38 spl at once at a lot higher velocity. I think that's plenty. I found this too, i'ts more about hunting. I still think it's interesting, especially the part about comparing the 410 to 10mm, 357, and 44-40.
http://www.fourten.org.uk/mwslug.html
I'm not trying to start a debate here. I just think the 410 is a good HD weapon. And probably could kill a dear out to 60 yds. Maybe farther.
I own a single shot NEF 410. I know from my experience using the gun that it would be perfect for home defense.
Buck or bird doesnt really matter, most intruders see a gun and run, those that are stupid enough to stay will definitely regret it either way. 12 gauge shotguns take alot of credit and deserve it. But comparing the two is like comparing a ferrari and a ford fiesta. they both will do what you need, even if one is more powerful than the other.
this has been mentioned on other forums I frequent and its the same all over.
A 410 will do the job, dont let anyone tell you different. Ive had family take monster deer with a 410 when people said it was impossible. Its your decision on what you pick.
Buck or bird doesnt really matter, most intruders see a gun and run, those that are stupid enough to stay will definitely regret it either way. 12 gauge shotguns take alot of credit and deserve it. But comparing the two is like comparing a ferrari and a ford fiesta. they both will do what you need, even if one is more powerful than the other.
this has been mentioned on other forums I frequent and its the same all over.
A 410 will do the job, dont let anyone tell you different. Ive had family take monster deer with a 410 when people said it was impossible. Its your decision on what you pick.
rottieman33
New member
Get a Saiga 12,20, or 410 and get a 10 round mag
I keep a .410 as a truck gun. It's mainly for "just in case". I have various different shells stocked for defense, varmint, and food.
Would I want to rely on a .410 single, double, or pump for home/camp defense? Not if I had a choice. However, it's a Saiga with a 15 round mag. What it lacks in raw power, it makes up for shots on target and speed of follow up shots.
Nice little camp/truck gun that can be pressed into defense if need be.
Would I want to rely on a .410 single, double, or pump for home/camp defense? Not if I had a choice. However, it's a Saiga with a 15 round mag. What it lacks in raw power, it makes up for shots on target and speed of follow up shots.
Nice little camp/truck gun that can be pressed into defense if need be.
To those of us who are primarily shotgunners, a .410-bore is a mouse load typically relegated to .410-bore clay target events, firearms familiarization for youngsters, and nuisance targets. Like many folks, my good guns are locked away; but, there's the ancestral single-shot 3" .410 in the coat closet and a box of shells in the mantle clock. It's not my HD go-to gun.
On the other hand, to a pistol shooter, a .410-bore shot shell makes a revolver a hand cannon. It's the proliferation of the .410-bore revolvers and "HD" loads specially tailored to them that has folks thinking about the .410-bore as an appropriate HD load.
Is the .410-bore shot shell appropriate for HD, it all depends on your perspective. But, as Dave McC reminded us, "It beats bare hands…"
On the other hand, to a pistol shooter, a .410-bore shot shell makes a revolver a hand cannon. It's the proliferation of the .410-bore revolvers and "HD" loads specially tailored to them that has folks thinking about the .410-bore as an appropriate HD load.
Is the .410-bore shot shell appropriate for HD, it all depends on your perspective. But, as Dave McC reminded us, "It beats bare hands…"
If a man pointed one at me I would ask him not to shoot me with that, it can kill a person. A bb gun can kill a person so why argue over how effective it is? Use what you feel comfy with and be prepared.
Most folks will never ever need any type of defense at all. But, best have a plan in case it does.
Most folks will never ever need any type of defense at all. But, best have a plan in case it does.
Buzzard Bait
New member
potential yes
I think the 410 buck shot load is an interesting load that may need more work. I saw a web sight that had tested the rounds in some different targets. It looked like the top pellet came out in good shape but the bottom balls looked like they were flat as a washer by the time the got out of the barrel. seems like if the load had some sort of plastic discarding sleeve to protect and support the balls or filler it would perform better. Most 410 shot guns are easy to shoot and easy to get good hits with. No denying that 4 or 5 double or triple 0 pellets at that kind of velocity with the ability for more follow up rounds in a hurry is a HD round to be considered.
bb
I think the 410 buck shot load is an interesting load that may need more work. I saw a web sight that had tested the rounds in some different targets. It looked like the top pellet came out in good shape but the bottom balls looked like they were flat as a washer by the time the got out of the barrel. seems like if the load had some sort of plastic discarding sleeve to protect and support the balls or filler it would perform better. Most 410 shot guns are easy to shoot and easy to get good hits with. No denying that 4 or 5 double or triple 0 pellets at that kind of velocity with the ability for more follow up rounds in a hurry is a HD round to be considered.
bb
The best thing that happened to the 410 is the Taurus Judge. Not because the gun is great or anything like that but because its popularity has made the big manufacturers to rethink their 410 offerings and use better components.
I have long been tired of the '410 is worthless use a 12 gauge with reduced recoil loads' statements floated. This thinking is ususally associated with those that think the 12 gauge is the beginning and end of the conversation.
Let's look at some of the offerings betwen the two.
00 Buck Nominal weight 53 gr. Diameter .33"
000 Buck Nominal weight 70 gr. Diameter .36"
12 Gauge reduced recoil 00 Buck: SAAMI barrel length 30"
9 pellet velocity 1125 fps (source Winchester)
8 pellet velocity 1200 fps (source Remington)
410 bore: SAAMI barrel length 26"
2 1/2"
3 pellet 000 Buck velocity 1300 fps (source Winchester)
4 pellet 000 Buck velocity 1200 fps (source Federal)
3"
5 Pellet 000 Buck velocity 1135 fps (source Winchester)
5 pellet 00 Buck velocity 1230 fps (source Sellier & Bellot)
Both loads can lose between 50 -100 fps when fired from an 18.5 in barrel. However, the 410 gives up nothing in velocity when compared to a 12 gauge firing a reduce recoil load of any flavor. Since you are usually firing 000 Buck in the 410, your per pellet energy is going to be 25-30% greater. A shotguns main effectiveness comes from multiple hits shocking the body into shutting down much like a burst from a SMG. Since we are talking houshold distances you can reasonably expect to put all pellets on target. Whether its a three pellet load, a four pellet load, or a five pellet load; hit a goblin in the boiler room with a 410 buck load and you will ruin his day. Is a 410 the best choice? Not really but neither is an 18 pellet load from a 12 or 10 gauge 3 1/2" shell.
Go to Brassfetcher, then the "Old Website" link and look at the results of the Winchester 3" load from an 18" barrel.
I have long been tired of the '410 is worthless use a 12 gauge with reduced recoil loads' statements floated. This thinking is ususally associated with those that think the 12 gauge is the beginning and end of the conversation.
Let's look at some of the offerings betwen the two.
00 Buck Nominal weight 53 gr. Diameter .33"
000 Buck Nominal weight 70 gr. Diameter .36"
12 Gauge reduced recoil 00 Buck: SAAMI barrel length 30"
9 pellet velocity 1125 fps (source Winchester)
8 pellet velocity 1200 fps (source Remington)
410 bore: SAAMI barrel length 26"
2 1/2"
3 pellet 000 Buck velocity 1300 fps (source Winchester)
4 pellet 000 Buck velocity 1200 fps (source Federal)
3"
5 Pellet 000 Buck velocity 1135 fps (source Winchester)
5 pellet 00 Buck velocity 1230 fps (source Sellier & Bellot)
Both loads can lose between 50 -100 fps when fired from an 18.5 in barrel. However, the 410 gives up nothing in velocity when compared to a 12 gauge firing a reduce recoil load of any flavor. Since you are usually firing 000 Buck in the 410, your per pellet energy is going to be 25-30% greater. A shotguns main effectiveness comes from multiple hits shocking the body into shutting down much like a burst from a SMG. Since we are talking houshold distances you can reasonably expect to put all pellets on target. Whether its a three pellet load, a four pellet load, or a five pellet load; hit a goblin in the boiler room with a 410 buck load and you will ruin his day. Is a 410 the best choice? Not really but neither is an 18 pellet load from a 12 or 10 gauge 3 1/2" shell.
Go to Brassfetcher, then the "Old Website" link and look at the results of the Winchester 3" load from an 18" barrel.
Superhouse 15
New member
My ex was recoil sensitive and I bought her the HD .410 Mossberg. I'm glad I got it in the Divorce. I kept S&B "Spherical Bullet" buckshot in it until I got my hands on the Winchester PDX loads (in the gun now) and Federal's Judge load (in Tuff Strips). It's still in my safe, near the front, just in case.