40sw snappier than 10mm?

LOL, I don't even know what that mean.
I took a look at the formula and near as I can figure out, it measures the "absolute" recoil force of the small arm taking into account all factors that might effect that force--including a weapon's weight, the powder charge weight etc but is calculated without any means of support--and since you're holding the weapon--that is a form of support that "eliminates" totally "free" energy. At least that's the way Spock explained it to me. : )
 
Put in simpler terms--if the 40 S&W truly were harder hitting than the original 10mm, felt or otherwise, then they would likely never have developed it as a watered-down 10mm for the FBI and switched over to it from the 10mm to begin with, don't you think?
 
"Full Power" 10mm:
Winchester Silvertip is frequently mentioned.
Short barrels may not deliver what is expected....
Winchester Silvertip from a Glock 29 @ 1,045 fps / 424# KE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNXe7qYL04c
My 5 shot averages
Glock 29 SF
Handload Barnes Tac-XP 140 gr. @ 1,190 fps / 440# KE
Corbon 150 JHP @ 1,231 fps / 505# KE
Hornady 155 XTP @ 1,256 fps / 543# KE

If the Silvertip 10mm with 424# KE is considered "full power" then the Hornady 155 XTP and Corbon 150 JHP are too.
 
http://rangehot.com/original-10mm-ammo-made-ffv-norma-ab-·s-670-40-amotfors-sweden/


"The Original 10mm Ammo Made By FFV NORMA AB ·S-670 40 AMOTFORS – SWEDEN

by Wade Landeche on August 4, 2015 in Gun Talk
Rewind back into the very late 70’s and early 80’s, the renowned Colonel John Dean “Jeff” Cooper, had the inspiration of a 40 caliber cartridge which would drive a 200 grain projectile @ 1000 feet per second which would translate into 444 foot pounds of energy. Seeking a semi auto platform based on the CZ-75, he discussed the concepts of gun and ammo with the new and upstart company headed up by Thomas F. Dornaus and Michael Dixon of Dornaus & Dixon Enterprises. Their first pistol was produced and chambered in 45ACP because the 10mm cartridge had not been designed as of yet. Those discussions with Col. Cooper led up to the conceptual design of the 10mm cartridge which would be based on the length of the 45ACP, so the grip would be similar in length, the cartridge overall length was set at 1.2500”. Dixon refined the case length design as being rimless, utilizing an extractor groove, taking in account thicknesses for strength for pressures generated for safety. Mike Dixon also decided on a large pistol primer (0.210”) for reliable ignition properties (later he considered this to be a mistake for fear of the ejector contacting and setting off the primer prematurely) but it was a defining factor of “Big Bore” guns.
The next step was making cartridges and bullets. Sierra Bullet Company was asked to swage their 210 grain .41 caliber JFP bullets down .40 caliber and 200 grains in weight.
Mr. John Donnelly, a friend of Mr. Copper, started with .30 Remington cases which he turned down, cut a 45 degree extractor groove and cut them to length. Mr. Donnelly proceeded to load what was said to be two boxes or 100 cartridges, dubbing them “10mm Bren” and so the 10mm was born, later Mr. Dixon changed name to 10mm Auto to be fired from the Bren Ten 10mm Auto Combat Pistol.
Mike Dixon was able to finalize external specifications; he also upped the velocity specification to 1150 feet per second, which exceeded Col. Cooper’s numbers of 1000 feet per second and Dornaus wanted the numbers low for fear of reliability. It was Mr. Dixon reasonability to find ammo makers to produce the 10mm Auto ammunition. He contacted Super Vel, “known for their high performance hollow point ammunition, but was declined. He tried Hornady Manufacturing and was turned down as well. Mr. Dixon’s contacts at Sierra Bullets put him in contact with Mr. Bert Jonsson said to be the U.S. sales manager for NORMA Ammunition AB, headquarters Amotfors, Sweden.
NORMA took on the commitment, to produce the 10mm Auto brass cases and 10mm Auto ammunition in the spring of 1983, to include pre production prototyping and new powder development including making the ammunition part of their regular product line. NORMA, utilized a 5” test barrel with “Power-Seal” rifling (same as length as the full size Bren Ten to test the new ammo. The tested velocity was said to be 1260 feet per second which equates to 704 foot pounds of energy in April of 1983 with a 200 grain Jacketed Truncated Cone bullet with a 37,000 CUP (copper units of pressure) for a 10 shot average. This placed the energy between the 158 grain .357 magnum and the 240 grain .44 magnum performance and nearly equal to the .41 magnum. Also the accuracy was an outstanding 0.45” at 50 yards…NORMA then developed an even faster 170 grain Jacketed Hollow Point rated at 1300 feet per second and 636 foot pounds energy, introduced at SHOT in 1985 in Atlanta, Georgia."
 
What others have referred to as "recoil energy" appears to be, or similar to, what I referred to earlier as "impulse" which is defined as:
In classical mechanics, impulse (symbolized by J or Imp[1]) is the change in linear momentum of a body. It may be defined or calculated as the product of the average force multiplied by the time over which the force is exerted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulse_(physics)
 
Stagpanther said:
Put in simpler terms--if the 40 S&W truly were harder hitting than the original 10mm, felt or otherwise, then they would likely never have developed it as a watered-down 10mm for the FBI and switched over to it from the 10mm to begin with, don't you think?

The problem wasn't so much the recoil of the 10mm as it was the size of gun needed to chamber it, so not being able to handle the 10mm was due to weapon size not recoil. The 10mm load they were testing was what we call .40 level today, not original Norma style loads.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stagpanther
Put in simpler terms--if the 40 S&W truly were harder hitting than the original 10mm, felt or otherwise, then they would likely never have developed it as a watered-down 10mm for the FBI and switched over to it from the 10mm to begin with, don't you think?
The problem wasn't so much the recoil of the 10mm as it was the size of gun needed to chamber it, so not being able to handle the 10mm was due to weapon size not recoil. The 10mm load they were testing was what we call .40 level today, not original Norma style loads.
__________________
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Repent America!
The way I understand it, Cooper and friends developed the preliminary cartridges to arrive at initial design--but it was Norma that was contracted to produce the factory ammo that was to be used in the Bren Ten by the FBI and why the Norma spec is cited as the "original" 10mm.
 
p71pilot said:
It is not possible for a standard pressure .40 to have more recoil energy than a stqndard pressure 10mm.

Still wrong.

mavracer said:
He changed guns putting the 10mm in a much heavier HK MP5

I'm glad that at least one other person on this forum understands that recoil energy is a function of the mass and velocity of the weapon.
 
I'm glad that at least one other person on this forum understands that recoil energy is a function of the mass and velocity of the weapon.
Make that at least two--and BTW you left out weight of bullet, powder charge, and velocity of ignition impulse. And your "free energy" recoil is predicated upon no resistance at all to the mass of the handgun--in other words no restraint of any kind including being held.

I could take an lcp and rechamber it to fire a 40 SW and a barret 50 BMG and rechamber it to fire the 10, and yes, if you have a ship's anchor as a platform your felt recoil is going to be less out of the 10mm.
 
Ok, I'm glad that at least two people on this forum agree that it is possible for a standard pressure 10mm to have less recoil energy than a .40. :)
 
I'm glad that at least one other person on this forum understands that recoil energy is a function of the mass and velocity of the weapon.

Except the OP states he is using the same gun so in the context of THIS CONVERSATION p71pilot's statement is correct. It is impossible for for the 40S&W load to produce more recoil energy or for that matter velocity.
So something is amiss either the 10mm load isn't anywhere close to advertised velocity or OP's hand is lying to him, or like someone stated earlier OP is confusing blast with recoil entirely possible with a newer shooter.
 
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