40sw snappier than 10mm?

Some people confuse recoil force with recoil speed. The 10mm loads were pushing the gun back into the hand with more ft lbs of energy. The laws of physics are strictly enforced. The lighter 165 gr 40 S&W loads had less recoil, but very likely had more recoil speed.

Some people perceive more recoil speed to be more uncomfortable than actual recoil. You often see rifle shooters compare it to a sharp jab instead of a push. This is really more a mental thing than real. While the push of a slower recoiling gun may seem more comfortable at 1st and for a few rounds many heavy kicking guns are tolerable. After a certain number of rounds the body starts to reach it's limits. The gun with the most actual recoil will eventually prove to hurt more.
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that makes sense. That's what makes the 40sw snappier, the recoil speed.
 
1K in a day? Were you by any chance following Jerry Mucilek's plan "How to kill All Your Hand's Nerve Cells"?
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It was a 1000 round reliability match. I figured I'd do something different since most of the shooters were going to show up with a 9mm or a .45ACP.

It wasn't the most fun I've had with a gun, but it wasn't as bad as the day I put 200 rounds of .44Mag downrange.
You're a lot tougher than I am, I'd have a tough time doing that!
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Or maybe I'm just not as smart. I don't do stuff like that anymore...
 
p71pilot said:
It is not possible for a standard pressure .40 to have more recoil energy than a standard pressure 10mm.
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That's a very silly statement. Someone needs to do a LOT more study on the relationships between energy, momentum, and work. It's easily possible. I'll give you an example right here, where a .40 has almost twice the recoil energy of a 10mm:

Standard pressure .40 S&W, 180 grain @ 950 ft/sec in a Glock:

Recoil energy = 5.36 ft.lb.

http://www.hornady.com/store/40-SW-180-gr-XTP/

Standard pressure 10mm, 180 grain @ 1180 ft/sec in an H&K:

Recoil energy = 2.86 ft.lb.

http://www.hornady.com/store/10mm-180-gr-XTP/

SAAMI paper on calculating recoil energy is here. I used a charge weight of 10 grains for the 10mm and 9 grains for the 40 S&W:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...sg=AFQjCNEJg6sjJ88DfJYRR3c75-d7jb2c4g&cad=rja

Couple of excerpts below:

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WwPSOCE.png
 
With respect 45 auto--your cited 10mm figures are not what I would call "standard"--in fact they represent what a "real" 10mm would be doing at somewhere between 75 and 100 yds from the muzzle after firing!;)
 
Easy enough to change. 3 seconds in an Excel spreadsheet. What do you consider a "real" 180 grain 10mm muzzle velocity?

Even the Buffalo Bore 180's only run 1350 ft/sec at the muzzle, which means that with them the 10mm has 3.74 ft.lb. of recoil energy instead of 2.86. Still substantially below the 5.36 ft.lb. from the Hornady 40 S&W.
 
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I have no idea how you arrived at these numbers, I cannot get any calculator to come even close to these figures. I think you would need compare both charges as fired through the same weapon (easy enough when considering a glock 20) as well as same powder type.
 
Feel free to post your calculations. You can work through the SAAMI shotgun recoil energy example as a check and should get about 30 ft.lb.

Here's mine on the Hornady 40 S&W I linked to:

Wf/64.34 = .031085
We x Ve = 171000
ChgWt x Vpg = 12825
7000 x Wf = 14000

(Wf/64.34) x (((We x Ve) + (ChgWt x Vpg))/(7000 x wf))^2 = 5.36 ft.lb.
 
I think the "velocity impulse" does in fact happen "faster" with the 40 S&W--the notion that it develops more recoil energy than a 10mm defies logic to me. Here is Hawk's table--which if you look closely the 10mm clearly exceeds the 40 in recoil energy--and that is with generous figures with 40 velocity exceeding what you quoted--as well as a "slower" 10mm which is further dampened through a heavier pistol compared to the 40 S&W.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_recoil_table.htm
 
Taken from the table: Pistol Wt - Recoil E - Recoil V

40 S&W (165 at 1080) 1.5 9.3 19.9
10mm Auto (180 at 1295) 2.25 11.4 18.1

The 165 I've shot were 1175 fps so there was more energy there.

And my hand don't lie. The 40sw stung my hand more than the 10mm. This is why I remarked that the 40 is sure is snappy.
 
Taken from the table: Pistol Wt - Recoil E - Recoil V

40 S&W (165 at 1080) 1.5 9.3 19.9
10mm Auto (180 at 1295) 2.25 11.4 18.1

The 165 I've shot were 1175 fps so there was more energy there.

And my hand don't lie. The 40sw stung my hand more than the 10mm. This is why I remarked that the 40 is sure is snappy.
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The "recoil velocity" is a bit more (and I don't even buy into this entirely since it's based on powder charge weight alone)--but the point remains the actualrecoil force from the original as-intended 10mm --not the "FBI 10mm in drag" loads--is higher.
 
I happen to think even my lightweight 9mm LC9s is "snappier" than my G20 firing my powerhouse 10mm and 9 x 25 dillon loads (pushing a 9mm bullet at almost 2000 fps). So, while I'm firing it I might "stiff arm" harder than I need to aniticipating and wanting to control the "snap." That alone, along with the sharpness of the recoil velocity--can make the weaker pistol feel like it's hitting harder and causing more pain.
 
I think y'all forget the burn rate of gun powders in those calibers.

The 40sw probably have faster burning powder than the 10mm.
 
I think y'all forget the burn rate of gun powders in those calibers.

The 40sw probably have faster burning powder than the 10mm.
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Didn't forget--in fact, they share many, if not most, of the same powders, though the 40SW has a different case capacity and primer--that alone is probably going to give you a different ignition and impulse (along with the weapon and bullet weight). My point is "felt recoil" is not "actual recoil."
 
The recoil velocity is higher for the 40 because of the difference in firearm weight using this calculator using 32oz for the weight of a G29 the free recoil energy of your listed 10mm load is 11.81 and recoil velocity is 19.5 the 40 load you listed had a recoil energy of 8.67 and recoil velocity of 16.71.
 
Because of the smaller case, bullet, charge etc. the charge ignition and exhaust could very well exit the muzzle before the more powerful--and larger--10 mm one does, and I fully understand that gives the "snappy" feel as if a heavier recoil is being transmitted--but I still don't see how the actual recoil energy of the 40 S&W is going to exceed a "regular" 10 mm as cited in 45's figures.
 
Are you calling my hand a liar? :p

It's a felt recoil for a lack of better words. I'd be glad to let you see for yourself. You shoot my G29 once with the Sig Elite 10mm 180 FMJ and once with the Hornady 40sw 165 FTX.

Then you decide.
 
Nope--but I will say this; if you were actually holding the firearms while firing them--you were not experiencing "free" recoil energy, since, by definition, it is unsupported.
 
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