40S&W…Have you seen the deals?

Forte S+W said:
In many ways, I feel like the FBI dropping .40 S&W worked wonders for its popularity on the civilian market because the high availability and low prices made them extremely attractive, then once they were actually in peoples hands folks quickly discovered that a lot of the supposed drawbacks of the cartridge such as snappy recoil, slow follow up shots, poor accuracy, and especially the catastrophic failures were grossly exaggerated.
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I don’t dislike the 40SW, but I don’t think the FBI dropping it is working wonders for the cartridge. Locally to me sales of new 40SW pistols have fallen off a cliff and if you are trying to sell a used pistol in 40SW some shops don’t even want to bother with it, or require you to slash the price so drastically that you might as well keep it. Private sales just seem to sit.

I think it’s a good time like you said if you’re willing to take a chance on a new cartridge or if you’re already a fan of the cartridge. But what I see in gun stores and at ranges suggests 40SW is become more niche currently. I think it will be interesting to see the popularity of this cartridge over time, and maybe it will have a rebirth like 10mm.
 
Pumpkin said:
40S&W fires in a 10mm chamber? The extractor controls the headspace?
Doesn’t sound too swift to me.
I could see this working in a 10mm revolver using moon clips.
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Seen and read quite a bit of people doing it and not having issues and my own personal experience doing it has reflected as such. Now, I wouldn't carry .40 in a 10mm pistol, but for practice? Sure, nothing seems to be hurt by it. At worst it would be an extractor after thousands of rds and those are cheap to replace.
 
There isn't a reason you can't shoot a 40 in the S&W 610 or the GP100 10mm. Carbon ring in cylinder would be no different than 38/357 in a 357.

But as fun as those are, a 10mm revolver suffer the same problem as happening in the 40 auto autos. A 357 in the frame of the 610 holds 8 357 and the 610 holds 6. A GP100 10mm holds 6. You really have to want to deal with moon clips and have a pretty darn good mental justification that 10mm is better than 38/357 ownership.

I'm not saying people don't love their 610/GP100 10mm...But 40 isn't going to survive because people can shoot 40. The 10mm revolver is already a niche gun given the 357 option.

Conversion barrels or expertise to feel confident to shoot 40 in a Glock 20 for example, that isn't going to save 40 either.

I imagine it exist for ever, but the common person won't know the true percentage decline.

What we do know is Federal exclusively was making 9mm for like 2 years during the pandemic. That is just another data point on where 40 stands. I would imagine there is some massive Federal stock reduction going on vs what we believe is even reasonably similar 40 new production going on.
 
wild cat mccane said:
There isn't a reason you can't shoot a 40 in the S&W 610 or the GP100 10mm. Carbon ring in cylinder would be no different than 38/357 in a 357.

But as fun as those are, a 10mm revolver suffer the same problem as happening in the 40 auto autos. A 357 in the frame of the 610 holds 8 357 and the 610 holds 6. A GP100 10mm holds 6. You really have to want to deal with moon clips and have a pretty darn good mental justification that 10mm is better than 38/357 ownership.

I'm not saying people don't love their 610/GP100 10mm...But 40 isn't going to survive because people can shoot 40. The 10mm revolver is already a niche gun given the 357 option.

Conversion barrels or expertise to feel confident to shoot 40 in a Glock 20 for example, that isn't going to save 40 either.

I imagine it exist for ever, but the common person won't know the true percentage decline.

What we do know is Federal exclusively was making 9mm for like 2 years during the pandemic. That is just another data point on where 40 stands. I would imagine there is some massive Federal stock reduction going on vs what we believe is even reasonably similar 40 new production going on.
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I know the market for 10mm is not big, but it is growing and the reason for that is 10mm is quite powerful for an auto and the power it has it's more practical for more people than something like .50 AE. The drawback to 10mm is the availability of ammo at local stores, they don't stock enough of it to be able to get bulk discount pricing and the price isn't as low compared to .40, which is more popular.

The 9mm is and always will be the most popular caliber, because of that demand will always be the highest and companies like Federal will load for it for years during the typical 4 year panics. That doesn't mean .40 or any other caliber is dead.
 
TunnelRat said:
I don’t dislike the 40SW, but I don’t think the FBI dropping it is working wonders for the cartridge. Locally to me sales of new 40SW pistols have fallen off a cliff and if you are trying to sell a used pistol in 40SW some shops don’t even want to bother with it, or require you to slash the price so drastically that you might as well keep it. Private sales just seem to sit.

I think it’s a good time like you said if you’re willing to take a chance on a new cartridge or if you’re already a fan of the cartridge. But what I see in gun stores and at ranges suggests 40SW is become more niche currently. I think it will be interesting to see the popularity of this cartridge over time, and maybe it will have a rebirth like 10mm.
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Unless there's some sort of ban on military calibers and 9mm gets swept up in that (it could happen if WW3 gets started and the military needs as much 9mm as it can get) I don't see .40 ever having a 10mm like resurgence because it doesn't offer what 10mm does, which is 650 ft/lbs of energy. My belief is due to .40 being usable in many 10mm pistols the ammo will not see the demand drop off.

Factory new .40 pistols may indeed cause models to be discontinued by manufacturers, but with how many have been made over the past 30+ years there's going to be millions of .40's out there that need to be fed.
 
Yep, exactly my thought (minus consumable goods during WW3 :) ) too.

It will be around always. Market decline from here on out but no disappear. I think anything arguing otherwise is why forums exist, to have the banter :D Not one of can know anything other than ammoseek, gun.deals, Federal public statements, and shop experiences. But there really isn't points of solid data being talked about in "is 40 popular or not" convos.

There won't be a resurgence, if ever, if HST and Gold Dot aren't eclipsed by a newer design that massively benefits from any of the 40 exclusive features. Hard to imagine anything new would need 40 features, more likely Hyrdoshock Deep comes to 30SC, 30SC goes to an LCP frame, and that becomes something.
 
I always felt since buying my first 40 S&W, a Browning Hi Power in the mid 90s that the 155gr truncated bullets would have been the cats meow for military adoption. The 9mm as we know is notorious in FMJ round nose variety for being less than stellar in combat. Not sure how much better the newer truncated 9mm ammo is but I'm sure the HP round the army adopted punches far more efficient holes than the FMJ version to stop a fight but I bet a full house 155gr truncated FMJ in 40 cal would be very persuasive also.
 
I won't speculate on reasons why, but the guy who runs the local "tactical" gunshop says 60 (sixty!!) 9mms go out his door for every .40 he sells.

That might be a reason to offer good deals, to (hopefully) move .40s that are otherwise just sitting on the shelves....
 
I recently purchased a S&W M&P .40 for $248 out the door from AIM Surplus. I believe it was a CHP trade in.

It’s a very accurate pistol with a very nice trigger.

I was wanting another.40 so it’s filling that gap in my collection very nicely.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
It’s great there are good deals in .40 trade ins. The disappointing thing is that with 9mm popularity there is little development and fading support of .40. Glock really perfected their .40 with the thicker slide of Gen 5. Super sweet shooters now. But being different dimensions from the 9mm and its fading popularity meant holster makers and other accessories gave sparse support for the Gen5 .40.

Meanwhile the 9 is taking off like a rocket with innovation and selection. I had Glock Gen2 and 3 .40s long before I ever got my first 9 (FEG HP35). Today I really like the P365 and P320 lines but sure wish my .40 Gen5s had more support! But I see the market logic. As much as I like the .40, it is hard to justify the additional cost of components and gear for a cartridge so similar in modern performance except for “cuz I can.”
 
I guess my point is more along the lines of….

Some people want cheap guns or at least a good deal on guns.

9mm is a reasonably effective caliber. 40 is better, 45 even better. I guess my point is a reasonably skilled shopper can pick a good proven 9mm load. Anybody can pick a good 40 s&w sd load.

40 is a couple rounds shy of 9mm in a typical mag, but not usually enough to be significant

Ammo in 40 s&w is more than 9mm, but not anywhere near revolver ammo or 45 auto.

Seems like 40 s&w is destined for a comeback??
 
I think people have pointed out why it isn’t destined for a comeback though. The main appeal it has currently is the affordability of used pistols, especially from law enforcement agency trade ins, and ammunition that isn’t as expensive as it was in the past. But eventually those police trade ins will dry up and the ammunition is still generally more expensive than 9mm. If the cartridge were to see a resurgence in popularity, those cheap pistols and more affordable ammunition would likely go back up in price, taking away the current appeal.

While cheap pistols are nice, if you shoot to a reasonable extent the cost of ammunition can pretty quickly equal the cost of the firearm itself anyway, especially in 2024 where the firearms market in general seems pretty soft and there are a number of very reasonably priced new production pistols.

Nathan said:
40 is a couple rounds shy of 9mm in a typical mag, but not usually enough to be significant
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I think you could make the same argument about the difference in ballistic performance between the two cartridges.
 
I have seen some amazing deals on .40 S&W pistols for sure. I have three still, but probably won't add more. I have a fair amount of .40 S&W ammo still, but the price point is about 50% higher than 9mm. I like to shoot so 9mm is the more economical route. When it comes to concealed carry, a 9mm will hold more ammo for the same sized gun and will be easier to shoot out of a smaller gun than he .40 S&W would be.
 
Maybe I am unlucky, but i just did a “.40 used” query on gunbroker and the only “cheap” used .40’s that popped up are a ruger and some xd’s…….so no thank you.
 
Pre Covid--I picked up a NIB Gen 1 M&P for dirt cheap---it actually has a decent trigger too.

It's one of my HD guns and a possible option for when ammo gets scarce again---otherwise no real big fan of the .40 here.
 
.40 in a 10mm

I can't let that go.

Yes indeed, the extractor will serve to hold the cartridge sufficiently on the breech fact for a pin strike to ignite the cartridge. It works, and in a very desperate pinch could be done if no other options. But it is not recommended for several reasons:

-comparison with a revolver is not a valid argument, two entirely different
systems. A second trigger pull delivers the next shot with a wheel gun, regardless of how much carbon has built up in the chambers, provided the round has seated all the way to the rim. Not so with an auto. A carbon ring in an auto may prevent the correct round from chambering at the onset and tie up the gun, as cycling is dependent on that cartridge going fully into battery and firing to effect cycling.

-there is a difference between a auto barrel with a headspace "shoulder" and a revolver cylinder with has no such machining. As such, it will theoretically not clean as easily and I suspect possibly even erode with heavy use, much as a rifle leade. Note I said "suspect" as I am not certain at all about that. But it stands to reason that the "shoulder" in an auto chamber was not intended to be exposed to the amount of gas delivered by a ctg drastically shorter that does not nest with the ctg mouth..

-broken extractors may be cheap, but suffering one with a pistol that one my use for SD, or hunt with could be very detrimental. Also, we have seen supply chains disrupted before and said extractor may not be as easily obtained as one thinks, so best to have one on hand if you intend on breaking it. On just a range gun, it's an inconvenience, but I have to ask why bother with a 10mm and just simply acquire a .40?

-with that point, why not acquire a conversion barrel if available? I threatened for a long time to buy a Lone Wolf .40 barrel to run in my G20, as I had access to issue .40 and lots of brass, but I never made the switch.

-firing a a cartridge that the gun is not marked for is a bad practice. Because
internet folks are doing so does not make it valid. Yes, we do so with
.38/.357 and some other ctgs that have label criss cross (30-30 and .30 WCF come to mind) but as a rule it is not done nor recommended. Didn't
your mama tell you about the other kids playing with dynamite?:D
 
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