.40 S&W

No offense taken as I've always used the term 'nuclear' when referring to my heavy loaded 165grn 10mm. I just started using it when I first chrono'd the batch as I couldn't believe the velocities I was getting with it. I remember running 3 different 10rd strings to make sure that I was getting accurate readings including one string on our club's Ohler 35 with triple screens. All the data matched and so I had to believe it.

The velocity difference between my 6" KKM Precision barreled G20L and a stock 4.6" barreled G20 with it's polygonal rifling is documented but I can't say for sure if the rifling and/or chamber differences are contributing or is it wholly the result of the 1.4" longer barrel. Whatever the contributors, the velocity difference, coupled with the 28% longer sight radius and the better muzzle weight makes for a sweet woods piece and why I'd recommend a G40 over the G20 to anyone.

Yes, I'm partial to longer barrels as well as iron sights for simplicity and accuracy as my G20L hangs on target very well. I'm also partial to the fact that it fits tight to my body, doesn't weigh a ton for it's power, and has 18 total rds available for whatever I may come up against.
 
Alright then, it's just you didn't start using that term in this thread until after I used it and were putting it between quotation marks, so I thought you were sarcastically quoting me each time.
 
That's because I wasn't talking about my specific load data. It's no big thing either as I've used 'nuclear' to describe my hottest 165grn load for my G20L for 16 years. My hottest 180grn at the upper 1,400fps range and 200grn loads at the upper 1,300fps range produce ME in the upper 800ft/lbs but I use the 165grn number because it's really fast at 1,589fps and powerful at 925ft/lbs ME.

Again, my point in using those numbers is to point out that using the proper powder is good but giving it a barrel length it can fully produce in is very, very good. And FWIW, my loads have been measured in a 16" carbine and they don't produce that much additional gain in velocity; at only about 200fps.

I use that as an argument that the small cased, high pressure pistol calibers with fast burning powder designed to provide maximum performance in short pistol barrels such as 9mm, 40s&w, 10mm, and 45 Super don't benefit from longer barreled platforms, such as leverguns as much as the older, larger cased magnum pistol calibers that use larger charges of slower burning powder such as .357mag, 41mag, 44mag, 45 Colt (Ruger) do.

I have both .357mag and 45 Colt leverguns and the velocity gains out of longer barrels, even barrels as long as 24", are impressive. How does a 158grn .357mag using 18.0grns Lil'Gun (listed max load) producing 1,952fps out of a 20" Rossi carbine an a whopping 2,005fps out of a 24" Rossi rifle sound?
 
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I have a relative who is an FBI field agent in Afghanistan.
She explained to me that she was told the FBI went back to the 9mm purely because of magazine capacity.
The FBI realized that the .40 and the 9mm were both capable of getting the job done, but more bullets in the magazine is better than less bullets.

Personally, for self defence, I think the 9mm Luger is just fine.
If I do my job, the bullets will do their job.
 
I live behind enemy line in CA, where magazines are no more than 10 rounds. I go for the biggest caliber that I can handle. 40 s&w it is. A Glock 23 can do 40, 357 sig and 9 with simple swap of barrels and mags.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
Forte S+W said:
It seems as though all of the Police trade-ins flooding the market at insanely low prices had the following effects.

  • Folks bought cheap .40s.
  • Took cheap .40s to the range and enjoyed shooting them.
  • Bought more ammo to shoot more.
  • COVID-19 happened and folks started panic-buying guns and ammo, especially cheap guns like .40cal Police trade-ins, exhausting the supply.

Now there are a lot more people who own a .40 than ever before, most of whom will wish to continue shooting them once they can get out to the range, demand for ammo will ensure that it stays in production, and it's very likely that word of mouth will spread that .40 S&W is not in fact; "Too sthnappy" when fired from full-size duty pistols, especially all-metal ones, and offers better ballistic performance than 9mm.

Reports of its death were already greatly exaggerated and based on the demonstrably false logic that all cartridges which fall out of favor with Law Enforcement will die because apparently every shooter is a sheep who follows the lead of LE, and therefore just sells their guns the moment LE adopts something new. You know, like how .45 Long Colt, .45 ACP, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, 9mm Luger, and 10mm Auto all died when police stopped carrying them at different times.
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The new folks who bought up the cheap, surplus .40’s will only enjoy them for a short while. They’ll eventually find their way to a message forum or YouTube and find out they purchased a dead caliber. And they’ll learn that it has too much recoil to shoot effectively. And that 9mm is just as effective and has less recoil.

And even though they really enjoyed shooting their .40’s, they’ll learn the error of their ways and trade them in for 9mm pistols.

And then, there will be even more second hand, used .40’s on the market at even cheaper prices for those of us who still enjoy shooting them.
 
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Folks have been regurgitating that nonsense online for at least the past five years, so if it hasn't convinced folks by now, it never will.

Besides, folks can say all they want that .40 S&W is difficult to shoot, and for them maybe it is, but not for everyone, especially not in the heavy, all-metal police trade-in service pistols like the SIG P226, S&W 4006, Beretta 96, etc.
Obviously those who have already shot one know better too.

Will some people succumb to insecurity, doubt, or peer pressure? Will others discover that the recoil is indeed too much for them? Sure, but all the better for those who enjoy shooting .40 S&W, aren't recoil sensitive, or simply seek a more powerful cartridge without having to go up a frame size.
 
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Our private range provides free access to all Law Enforcement as well as the Boy Scouts and other organizations as part of a commitment to public service. I talk to the LEO training officers all the time and over the years we've talked about why a certain department will carry a particular brand of pistol and caliber.

Every time it comes up, the LEOs always say that the number one reason that their department chose a specific pistol and caliber was cost. Not performance but cost. Every time. 9mm ammo is cheaper than 40s&w or 45acp and that's the main reason that they are equipped with 9mm pistols. That's their statement, not mine. Many training officers have told me that they believe their department made a mistake picking the 9mm.

As to why departments choose the 9mm, many of the LEOs who come for training are absolutely clueless about their duty piece. It's scary how so many of them have so little experience with their duty piece. For example, a friend with a gun shop makes his living cleaning the pistols and rifles of the LEOs who barely know how to use them and couldn't field strip their weapon if their life depended on it.

Also, some officers come to our range with their own private weapons to practice with. I've never seen an officer with a personal 9mm piece. Many have 40s&w but most seem to like a full size 1911 in 45acp or a wheel gun in .357 or 44 mag.
 
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