.40 S&W

Forte S+W said:
@COSteve
What sort of nuclear 10mm loads are you packing that deliver 900ft-lbs of energy?! Seriously, even the hottest 10mm loads I have ever seen were just over 700ft-lbs. :eek:
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That's likely because they were chrono'd from a 4.6" barreled G20 or equivalent. Shooting custom handloaded 10mm out of a 6" barrel with powders like Power Pistol, Blue Dot, and 800-X produces some serious velocities.

For example, my 165grn 'nuclear' loads are pushing 1,589fps from my 6" G20L at my range at 6,100asl on an 84° day. That translates to 925ft/lbs of ME. While my 180grn 'hot' loads are pushing 1,479fps from my 6" G20L at my range at 6,100asl on an 84° day. That translates to 874ft/lbs of ME.

I've heard of some fellow shooters at our range pushing some Blue Dot loads even faster out of their G40s.
 
It's remarkable just how much of a difference an inch or two of barrel can make with these high pressure rounds. I've heard folks say that 10mm could get into .41 Magnum territory, but even the hottest of factory loads only seem to push .357 Magnum.

I'm used to lower pressure rounds like .45 ACP in which the difference between barrel lengths makes far less of a difference.
 
I don't have a 10mm and have never shot one.
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That was not true. I forgot my bud bought one a couple of years ago and I have fired 5 rounds from it. He has the Glock 20 IIRC. Nice round but with factory loads it wasn't the powerhouse I thought it would be. Sounds like handloading is the way to go.

With the 4" barrel it won't reach the power levels COSteve is getting but with good handloads I don't see why a jump in power isn't possible. Enough of a boost to make it worth his time to do so since he already reloads.
 
No doubt about that. I already knew that handloads were generally required to get the most out of 10mm without spending a fortune on boutique ammo, but I had no idea that it could reach that kind of power.
 
During the Sandy Hook panic buying/ammo drought, all the 9mm, 45 acp, .223/5.56, .22 LR were very hard to find on shelves(at least at all the places I checked here in FL). But, I was still able to find plenty of .40 to feed my Glock 23 and USP.
 
ratshooter said:
With the 4" barrel it won't reach the power levels COSteve is getting but with good handloads I don't see why a jump in power isn't possible. Enough of a boost to make it worth his time to do so since he already reloads.
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That's true. My neighbor bought a G20 after shooting my G20L about 12 years ago. We've chrono'd my loads in both pistols at the same time and the extra 1.6" of barrel gives me hundreds of fps increased velocities.
 
People want the recoil of a 22 LR with results of a .357 magnum. Won't get it.

A lot of Police changed back to 9mm because the FBI did. The same reason they went with the .40 S&W to start with.

That is problem one. Nobody should make these choices based strictly on what some government agency does. And a good part of the reason the FBI changed back was because they hire folks of smaller stature and people that often would not know a RSA from a shock absorber.

The .40 is a good round that has "worked" on the streets. It will be around and morph into something better as years go by.

I have chosen to shoot the round that is best for my situation - not that of government employees in D.C. God Bless Them.
 
Forte S+W said:
No doubt about that. I already knew that handloads were generally required to get the most out of 10mm without spending a fortune on boutique ammo, but I had no idea that it could reach that kind of power.
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That doesn't stop with the 10mm. I handload for 7 pistol and 9 rifle calibers and to get decent performance out of my leverguns in both .357mag and 45 Colt, I must handload. To get decent plinking 30-30 ammo, I must handload. To get precision 5.56 ammo for my 400yd 'Appleshooter" I must handload. To get decent longer range .308 and 30-06 ammo I must handload. Etd., etc., etc. See a pattern here?

Commercial ammo is built in bulk and is worked up to work decently in the widest range of arms. It's also made to make money for the producers. To get quality ammo tuned to your platform and to save between ½ to ⅔ the price (unless you're talking low volume, high precision and then you could be talking saving ¾ or more!) you must handload your own.

Eighteen years ago I started with a Dillon 550B, after 4 years I sold my 550 and moved up to an XL 650 with a casefeeder. A couple months ago on a whim, I bought an XL 750, used most of my stuff from my 650 including the casefeeder, strongmount, toolheads, quick change kits, and caliber conversions, and sold my 650.

Two days ago I produced 2 different loads of 45 Colt for my leverguns, 1 a longer range, 255grn full charge and 1 a plinking 200grn approach. I made a total of 730rds and it took me about 2 hrs to produce them at a savings of $318.

Then the next day I changed calibers and produced 2 different loads of .357mag for my leverguns, 1 a longer range, 158grn full magnum charge and 1 a plinking 125grn approach. I made a total of 520rds and it took me about 1½ hrs to produce them at a savings of $234.

I produced a total of 750rds of quality tuned ammo for my use. I saved a total of $552 over the cost of cheap, bulk ammo, not the custom tuned, higher priced stuff, the bulk cheap stuff. That's why I handload.
 
WestTex said:
People want the recoil of a 22 LR with results of a .357 magnum. Won't get it.

A lot of Police changed back to 9mm because the FBI did. The same reason they went with the .40 S&W to start with.

That is problem one. Nobody should make these choices based strictly on what some government agency does.
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Because they have reasons and constraints that don't necessarily apply to what Joe Citizen does. Different role and different rules.
 
I have full-sized duty pistols in 9mm, 40 S&W, and 45acp. Some of them are identical or nearly identical except for caliber. For instance, I have a 1911 in each caliber.

In similar full-sized pistols, the three cartridges all feel about the same to me.
 
I have Glock 22, 23, 35 and like them all.
I feel that 40 has slightly better ASAP incapacitation potential than 9mm - same shot placement.
Note use of emotion, "feel" to support my position; using emotion as a justification, nice. ;) :rolleyes:
 
is the death of the .40 maybe a bit exaggerated?
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On paper the 40 packs more energy. IRL, its guns generally hold one or two rounds less than 9. However, there are a few make/models chambered in 40 that are super versatile. The Glock 22, for example, with 2 conversion barrels can be chambered in 357 Sig and 9mm. With the numbers of 40's out there, I doubt it's going anywhere anytime soon.
 
I load for 6 or 7 different Handgun rounds and to tell the truth I have had excellent luck finding great loads for the .40. Being retired I get to shoot more then a lot of people (3 to 4 days per WK) and find that with regular practice almost all HG rounds can be mastered so I kinda struggle with the notion that L.E people can't master the .40 S&W and the cost of raw materials can't be that great to jump ship and go 9mm. I love the 9mm and burn around 400 rounds per week but the 9 don't bang the gong like a .40, .45 or .357.
 
I had a 10mm for awhile, but never shot it that much, so I ended up selling it.

I never had any interest in the .40 at all until I walked into my gunshop a few years ago and saw a very gently used S&W 411 on the shelf for $300.

I hemmed, hawed, and finally walked out the door with it.

I have to admit, I like the combination. It's currently my nightstand gun.
 
I have had a Glock 17L & a Glock 24 for several years now. And I try to shoot both them at least once weekly. I have a Dillon SD B sit up for 9mm, 40 S&W, 38/357, & 45LC. But I reload and shoot more 9mm & 40 S&W than the other three, most of the time. I really Like my 17L & 24 more every time I shoot them. But if I had to choose between them, the 24 would get the nod. But both of them are two of my chosen house guns. Both have Crimson Trace Laser Grip Sights & Night Lights, and Extended Magazines I prefer them set up this way. But again the Glock 24 is in my hand more if there is a bump in the night, that I feel I have to check out.
ken
 
For example, my 165grn 'nuclear' loads are pushing 1,589fps from my 6" G20L
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Any estimate of the pressures involved in getting that kind of velocity? Say from Quickload? Given the powder and charge weight, I can do a quick check if you're interested. Rod
 
rodfac said:
Any estimate of the pressures involved in getting that kind of velocity? Say from Quickload? Given the powder and charge weight, I can do a quick check if you're interested. Rod
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You'll get very poor results from Quickload because it was developed as a program for necked rifle calibers and doesn't do a good job of predicting in a straight walled case. The developer has stated this over and over when he gets questions about widely varying predictions. Checking growth in the base of the brass and the condition of the primer, as well as the fact that I'm shooting it in a tighter, target chambered barrel, says I'm ok.

In addition, I've shot over 9,000 rds of hot loads through my G20L in the 16 years since I developed it, hundreds of them my 'nuclear' level loads, without a single issue. (Why have a 10mm along with a 40s&w if you aren't going to shoot hot loads in it?) Yes, I watch my brass and don't load a 'nuclear' load a second time in a piece used for that but I'm confident that it works well.

Finally, I live and shoot in Colorado and my chrono'd results were at 6,100ft asl on an 84° day. I've re-chrono'd those loads over the years and gotten consistent velocities as well as re-chrono'd them in my neighbor's stock G20 and the results there are consistent too. His stock Glock consistently produces hundreds of ft per sec. slower readings.
 
Uh, you don't have to keep putting nuclear into quotations like that. I wasn't trying to be rude, I'd simply never heard of 10mm getting 900ft-lbs of energy before because I'm used to the watered down FBI Loads, mediocre hunting loads, and boutique loads which only get about 700ft-lbs on paper because they're chronographed from shorter test barrels.

I had hastily assumed that you were loading your ammo insanely hot to get that kind of muzzle energy, but now I know it had more to do with you shooting it out of a pistol with a longer barrel.
 
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