40 S&W good enough for mountain lions/black bear?

"Gee I'll have to give your learned advice to all of the experienced Alaskan outdoorsmen who carry 44s and up who arent quite as tough as you"

oh my gosh we are talking about georgia not alaska. I would not set foot in the alaskan wilderness without at least a .45-70, I am saying that since there are only black bears in georgia, I would feel more than comfortable with a .40. Black bears are thin skinned and not the biggest creatures in the world. If you have something bigger and as effiecient to carry by all means go for that but I don't see a reason to go buy a .454 (besides just wanting one:D) for self defense against georgia black bears. But no, kudos to all who lives in alaska, I dont know if would do it, but I think if i did I would always be looking over my shoulder and always have a long gun. I didn't mean to offend anyone, just voicing my opinion.
 
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What kind of question is this,really?

This is a question in which I was curious as to whether the handgun I currently own is suffecient enough to protect myself and family in the outdoors. I know I am young and if you do not like my original post I apologize for wasting your time Gojubrian. But please do not patronize the intentions of my question. I have always been given good advice on this forum and I respect the other members experiences. I have a pacemaker so I am unable to use rifles/shotguns and merely wondered if the handgun I own could defend us properly.
 
I see nothing wrong with these questions. If you're going to pack heat in the great outdoors, and you already have a gun, it just makes sense to ask what ammo might work best on threats, even if the odds are damned low you'll need it.
 
Based on FACT:

I live in Montana. Both of these happened in Montana.

A friend of mine (look it up in the Great Falls Tribune) killed a Black Bear a few years ago with a 40 yard single shot from his balcony, across his expansive back yard, saving his mother's life in the process. The gun was a Beretta 96. The ammo was 135gr Hydra-Shok. Upon their arrival deputies did shoot the bear with a shotgun, but all others present agree that the bear was dead and the deputies were just adding insurance.


A murder victim was found in the Little Belt mountains with a sow Black Bear merrily feasting away. The man on the scene killed said bear with a .40 S&W Glock. He emptied the magazine in the process, though weather out of need or caution, I do not know.

A MT Fish Wildlife and Parks employee had a GRIZZLY Bear chew on is leg a bit, while he dumped his anti-personnel 125's into it's head, at an angle, to little effect. The next trip around the cylinder (he got on his pickup roof and reloaded) was with 158gr JSP ammo, which DID punch trough the skull plate, at a steeper angle, ending the fight.

I'm not saying you are right or wrong, just giving some experience to base your choice on. Personally, I think you'll be OK with some good 180's.
 
This is a question in which I was curious as to whether the handgun I currently own is suffecient enough to protect myself and family in the outdoors. I know I am young and if you do not like my original post I apologize for wasting your time Gojubrian. But please do not patronize the intentions of my question. I have always been given good advice on this forum and I respect the other members experiences. I have a pacemaker so I am unable to use rifles/shotguns and merely wondered if the handgun I own could defend us properly.
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......from bears though,right?

Don't get your panties in a wad. If you are going to quote me, at least do me the courtesy or addressing my entire post. :rolleyes:
 
A 40 will be sufficient if you have the time, skill, and proper ammo. I would suggest the hot DoubleTap 180gn FMJ load. Personally, I am more concerned about two-legged predators.
 
The chances of seeing a Mt lion in GA is almost below NIL. Bear problems slightly higher. Your main possibility would be 2 legged problems,dogs, or a rabid critter. I'd want something about 25 oz's or less if out hiking.
 
Oh crap, you gotta be kiddin' me.

I wouldn't depend on a .40 to stop a middle size crackhead let alone a wild animal.

In my county there have been many shootings involving the .40 caliber. Not one was a one shot stop.
In fact, one guy got shot 11 times and the officers had to beat him with nightsticks to get him handcuffed.
In another incident, some doofus shot himself in the leg with his .40 after buying a box of shells at Wally World and drove HIMSELF to the hospital.

There are other examples too.
Knowing this, why would ANYBODY trust this wimpy round on a four legged predator. It doesn't perform well on their two legged cousins.
 
If a predator is going to attack you, it's for one of four reasons. One, you're vulnerable looking, maybe injured or a young child. Two, you stumbled upon a mother with its young, and your proximity to its young depends on whether or not it will attack you. In this case if it decides to attack you, one of you is not walking away from this situation. Third, its mating season and you stumble upon a male who thinks or knows that a female(his female) is nearby and you could threaten his chance to mate in some way. Fourth, you stumbled upon something that was in the act of feeding and it doesn't want competition.

If a mountain lion sees you as prey, they're not going to attack you unless they're absolutely sure you have NO idea they're stalking you. They will then jump down from a high location behind you, run a short burst, and grab the back of your neck, or they'll lightly jog up to you until they're very close, then charge you.

I was fishing in the dark at a lake in Colorado, and I saw something that sort of looked like a german shepard from a long distance walking down the boat ramp. It went under a tree and clawed at the ground, something a dog wouldn't do as agressively as this animal did, and when I got a better look I realized it was a mountain lion. It had no idea I was there because I stayed quiet. It started walking toward me and I was cornered beside my ability to jump in the water and start swimming. I stood up with my flashlight in hand when the cat was about 20 ft away. It stopped in its tracks. I turned on the flashlight, shined it in its eyes, and swayed the light left and right in its eyes somewhat slowly. It paused while I did this, not sure what to make of the situation, then after what seemed like 30 seconds it turned and briskly walked the other direction, stopping and turning every few steps to make sure I was not giving chase. It went back up the boat ramp and I didn't see it again. The important thing really is watch your back and never enter an area if you can't run in at least three different directions from that area, because if you turn a corner and happen upon something that is now cornered by you, it's gonna attack. You need to make sure anything you happen upon has more than one way to slowly back away from you, or you have the same option.

Edit: I would trust a high-capacity 40 SW against mountain lions and black bears, and I do have one, a Glock 23, partially for this purpose, not because it would kill the animal but becase it would be sufficient in at least three of those four situations to scare the animal away. If the situation of me happening upon something with its young occurs, I'm gonna unload everything I got at that animal if it charges me, and I consider this situation a coin-toss because of how tough bears are and how small and quick mountain lions are. Better than nothing though, and with my experience in my local environment I shouldn't run across a predator with its young anyway.
 
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As I recall from the book Bear Attacks, by Stephen Herrero, one of the major studies on the subject, black bears aren't even that aggressive in defending their young. The blacks that are more aggressive have been hanging out in bad neighborhoods, e.g. Montana, Western Canada, and Alaska, where they have to deal with (and learn from) grizzlies. For blacks outside of grizzly country, a good can of spray (UDAP for me) on the hip where you can just pop the safety and blast it, seems sufficient.

I used to lug a .44 magnum around with me on my hikes here in the Southwest, but have switched more recently to a lighter pistol and a can of bear spray. Likely the same would work in Georgia. In fact the gun I plan to carry soon is a Beretta Px4 .40, so I suppose I endorse that caliber as sufficient. I have thought the Glock 27 would be the ideal hiking gun, much smaller and lighter than the Px4 but still a good .40.

Mountain lions, it seems to me you have to be aware, and lucky, and have a gun or big knife you can get to quickly if jumped. It seems like even a snub .38 would do--as long as you can draw it in time.

Sounds like Georgia is a bit safer from lions than Arizona.
 
I only trust the 40 because it's high capacity and I don't imagine a situation where something would be dead set on taking me down. We don't exactly have animals the size of an SUV threatening you here in Colorado though.
 
Don't know if there is a "right" caliber, but...

One thing that should be mentioned - no pistol will save your life if you're not either extremely lucky (if a bear is attacking you in GA, I'd say your luck has run out) or a good shot, and punching paper at the range isn't adequate to prepare you to hit a moving animal that is actively trying to kill you. Neither is hunting (even dangerous game) from a tree stand with optics and a substantial margin of safety. As an example, in NYC the other day, cops fired a total of 12 rounds at a man INDOORS, and only hit him once. They train, go through semi-annual pistol recert, and yet when the suck happened, they only could hit him once in the leg. Adrenaline, fear, panic, you name it - in a bear attack you'll certainly feel it.

A .40 you can shoot well is much better than a .44M you can't hit a barn with. That said, i'd always rather have too much gun than not enough. Either way, if you're really concerned about these attacks, I'd suggest you practice shooting at moving targets and learn how to hit them while you're moving too - easier said than done. Lots of ways exist to improvise moving target practice if you have access to a private outdoor range, or you should be able to get professional training. Regardless of what you shoot, how you shoot is vastly more important..

Either that, or just enjoy the element of danger attendant in your hikes.
 
In my opinion, a hard-cast .40 would probably be sufficient. I think that more concern should be with situational awareness. Those "little cats" depend on the element of surprise. If you were unfortunate enough to have one of these animals charge you, good luck being able to hit them. Your ability to sense/detect them will be your best asset, in my opinion. Ammo, I feel, is a bit marginal, and the chances of being attacked are low. If you shoot your .40 well, keep it. Bear spray might be helpful, too. Just keep your eyes and ears open -- if you are approached by anything, you don't want to be the last to know.
 
pacerdude,

Did you talk to your cardiologist about shooting long guns?

I have a Saint Jude defib/pacer installed, and I was told it was OK to shoot.

Different medical situations I'm sure.
 
Thats what I carry a lot out in the bear and couger woods areas. 100 years ago people did not have a issue using the 38-40 on bears so dont see why the same power with better bullets wont work now. If I recall the Alaska state game cops pack a .40 as the issue gun too.
 
Here is a sum up of what I agree with from other posters here:

The chances of attack in your state are somewhere between slim and none. Yes, you still should be prepared for it. That is most certainly wise. The first line of defense for you should be a good spray. I know that in Alaska for example the sprays are around 90% effective versus 60-70% for firearms.

A .40 cal. for me would be on the bottom end of the spectrum I would feel comfortable with but still serviceable. Buy the best ammo for it you can afford. If you can't draw and hit a target with it quickly, it won't matter what caliber it is.

Also, I should add to remember to make noise. Bear bells, frequent talking, etc. will let mama sow know you are in her area in plenty of time for her to move her cubs away.
 
The pistols I own are a Glock 21, Glock 23, S&W 10 and Bersa UC9. Of these the G23 would be the pistol I'd take with me into the boonies. The .40s&w is a very viable and powerful round, moreso in it's factory loadings then the 9mm could ever hope to be in it's +p loadings and with more velocity than the .45acp. With it's heavier bullet weights than the 9mm and faster velocities than the .45acp the .40 is definitely able to punch through heavy materials with enough weight to have the momentum for penetration.
I agree the 10mm would be the better choice, and an even more powerful round in a revolver would be even better, but for it's size and capabilities the G23 is a decent choice in a semi.
I agree with those that say to be aware when out there and to have the discipline and control to perform under stress.
 
In reply to those of you who say I did not read the original post I noted that

large caliber HANDGUNS would be usable since the man has a pacemaker. I

recommended the long guns to give him an understanding that more is better, in this situation.

In response to the individual who says .40 cal. will work on a bear, go right

ahead and try it.. it will be your funeral. I work in the firearms industry and

deal with large game hunters all the time. I did not intend to offend anyone by

using command language, one must understand the seriousness of dealing

with bears and cougars! Common misconceptions about effectiveness of

different weapons gets people KILLED. Do you know someone who has took

a charging bear down with a .40 cal.? If so I would like to meet him/her
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What DOPE do you have on your gun?...echo6actual out
Click to expand...

Seriously man... You need to chill... He's not talking about going out and trying to kill a Kodiak Coastal brown bear... He's asking if a .40S&W will suffice for black bear defense, in Georgia of all places... Most likely the smallest black bears around... A .40 should work fine... Heck, I carry bear spray and my 10mm around up here for bear defense... I'll bet you'll suggest a .416 Barrett for bear protection up here huh? No? Too small? Well just pick up a grenade launcher from one of your mall ninja buddies before you come up... Seriously, a .308 semi-auto as the minimum for a frikkin black bear??? You're either crazy or ignorant of the topic at hand...

Back to the OP... A .40S&W should work fine... I'll suggest a couple of ammo options if I may...

- DoubleTap 200gr WFNGC

- DoubleTap 200gr Controlled Expansion JHP

- DoubleTap 180gr Controlled Expansion JHP

Any and all of these should do the trick nicely... I carry the 200gr WFNGC loaded in my 10mm every time I go afield... Remember, the handgun is only a backup, your first line of defense should always be bear spray...

Best of luck...
 
Bingo. Most of the black bears here in AZ are pretty small too, although I have seen some pretty big ones that had been shot. Both times I saw them I was unarmed except for a ka-bar, and I did not even really feel threatened. I usually just carry a .22. Its not really for defense but casual plinking and small game hunting. And if I did use it for defense, well I know everyone laughs at me but 90% of hikers here don't take a gun so I feel pretty well armed
 
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