.380 use on real gunfight

Interesting new options:
Click to expand...
Well, sorta...

First of all, hotrodding ammunition intended primarily for blowback action firearms strikes me as a bad idea.

Second, two of the three rounds are non-expanding rounds. Which is odd because .380 doesn't need extra power to get sufficient penetration with non-expanding rounds. All those loads will do is put a lot more wear on your gun & wallet and a hurting on whatever is behind your attacker.

As far as the expanding round goes, at least they're realistic about its use.
"...we would advise that you load this bullet in your chamber, followed by a magazine full of our non-expanding loads. So, if the first shot does not incapacitate the attacker, your magazine is full of ammo that will, if you can put the bullet in his spine or brain from any angle."​
 
A buddy of mine was covering a detail for one of his company's security guards who called in sick one night many moons ago.
The job was guarding a warehouse and he saw a guy stealing some stuff.
He walked up to the perp, drew his Walter PPK in .380 and proudly announced, "I got you!!"
Seconds later they were rolling on the ground, the perp pounding my buds head, screaming, "Who's got who, pig!!"
My friend then fired two contact shots into the bad guys ribs, which prompted him to get to his feet, dust himself off and tell my bud, "You shouldn't be trying to scare someone with a damn cap gun" before walking out the door.
Police found him lying in a pool of blood about 3 blocks from the crime scene, still very much alive.
Soon after this my bud bought a 9mm S&W.
 
matthew temkin A buddy of mine was covering a detail for one of his company's security guards who called in sick one night many moons ago.
The job was guarding a warehouse and he saw a guy stealing some stuff.
He walked up to the perp, drew his Walter PPK in .380 and proudly announced, "I got you!!"
Seconds later they were rolling on the ground, the perp pounding my buds head, screaming, "Who's got who, pig!!"
My friend then fired two contact shots into the bad guys ribs, which prompted him to get to his feet, dust himself off and tell my bud, "You shouldn't be trying to scare someone with a damn cap gun" before walking out the door.
Police found him lying in a pool of blood about 3 blocks from the crime scene, still very much alive.
Soon after this my bud bought a 9mm S&W.


This story was kinda funny lol....but sucks for your friend who got jumped though....
 
I agree..he was also guilty of bad tactics.
I prefer a .38 snub for concealment, yet I know of quite a few failure to stop instances with that caliber.
 
sounds funny..but is it really true? why is there really a big difference when it comes to power between .380 and .38 coming from snub revo?
 
sounds funny..but is it really true? why is there really a big difference when it comes to power between .380 and .38 coming from snub revo?
Click to expand...

A .38 Revolver round holds a lot more powder than a .380 auto round.

Check this:

ammo.jpg


As far as stopping power, I consider my .380 fine for self defense.
 
For ammo choices, start here:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/Various%...handloads.html
Click to expand...

1. You all need to keep in mind that the .380 test results from the above-listed site are handloads.

2. You need to pay attention what JohnSKa has posted.
I think this is true in general, the problem is that at the ..380 ACP energy levels you can't get any decent amount of expansion without paying an unacceptable penalty in penetration. Even the newest expanding loads in .380 show penetration levels that are too shallow if you believe what the FBI states as a minimum.
Click to expand...

3. I have owned a Kel-Tec .380 for several years (bought one of the first ones). In addition to the very common reliability problems (mine has been back to the factory twice), I have yet to find a factory round that will expand reliably AND penetrate to the depths recommended by the FBI test protocols.

I bought my .380 solely as a BUG. I have replaced it with a J-frame .38. My EDC is still a Glock 19 (9mm) with Winchester 127 gr. +p+ Ranger T ammo.

4. in case I didn't mention it, listen to JohnSKa. :)
 
several countrys in Europe use it for police. it is surely a close-range round. I carry a Makarov myself, have a BDA I used as security. that's what them over 5-shot clips is for, more lead if needed.
 
.380

Well, I worked two calls recently involving .380s and FMJ ammo. One was a contact wound to the mouth, bullet exited, travelled through a two interior walls and lodged in a back bedroom wall. The second involved two contact shots one to the mouth and one to the head. One exited and lodged in the ceiling above the victim, the other remained in the skull. First gun was a LLama, second a Davis and Lorcin. Lessons.... Placement is everything.
 
@CrazyIvan007 with regards to your chart, you are trying to convey a message that .38 is much stronger compared to .380 due to its size?

to other folks. correct me if im wrong but it seems that most are so concerned with the power of a single shot. what happend to the so-called follow-up shots? personally, if im armed with .380, 2 shots on chest area and finishing to the head. and can you tell which one hurts more, if i shoot you with .380 on your right leg and .45 on your left?
 
A .38 Revolver round holds a lot more powder than a .380 auto round.
Click to expand...
Actually, while there's ROOM for a lot more powder, the industry standard pressure limitations on the .38special round mean that the amount of powder actually used in the two rounds is much more similar in practice than one might expect.
 
The only experience I have had with a Bersa .380 has been that a friend of mine bought a Bersa Thunder back in the mid 1980's. I've never seen a gun jam so much as that one, and it would only feed FMJ. Since then, I've always stayed away from Bersa products.

I would rather have a GL19.
 
Last edited:
Tanzer said:
Not buying it in anticipation of a gunfight, I hope.
Click to expand...

For the purposes of this debate, we could say that about any caliber. My belief is that CCW is more a choice of 'readiness.' I also own a spare tire.

But parts of this debate always amaze me. Without fail, someone published power charts and slants the discussuion to the lethality of the lowly .380 ACP.

I was once criticized here for asking the simple question, "Would you attack me?"

That observation hinges on the fact that I am most likely to be near a .380 ACP pistol in circumstances where safety and security are an issue.

Yes, we all own larger pistols and revolvers. But I doubt that many of us tote a SW 500 in a tanker holster "just in case."

In fact, I think most people probably "over carry" for the first periods of time with a shiny new CCW license. Then they get tired of the heft, and look around for something like a light framed Smith J-frame.

I'm not a mercenary. I'm a guy concerned about safety. I lock doors, I buy good windows.

And I believe most macho guys will sing falsetto pleading for their mothers as a good guy starts fighting back with a .380 ACP pistol.
 
I have a Bersa T380CC with over 950 rounds thru it - FMJ, HP, many different brands - this pistol has never had a jam, FTF, FTE - absolutely zero problems.

Any gun can jam. Yes, some are more prone than others, and quality varies, I understand that. Even the vaunted Glock can jam, though. I was in a Self-defense pistol class with a guy that had a Glock 17 and it jammed several times. My Ruger jammed not once. What does that prove? Nothing.

The only experience I have had with a Bersa .380 has been that a friend of mine bought a Bersa Thunder back in the mid 1980's. I've been seen a gun jam so much as that one, and it would only feed FMJ. Since then, I've always stayed away from Bersa products.
Click to expand...
 
several countrys in Europe use it for police
Click to expand...

Only the one's that can't afford something better. Some police forces even use 7,65mm pistols because they don't have the funds for anything better. All of those who have enough money use 9mms.
 
@Silvanus -- does it mean, that folks who settle for bersa are considered 2nd class citizen?

.380 recieved alot of under estimates..i even heard comments like better than a stick. would you feel undergun if what you got is a tiny 380 like bersa, where as others are bulging with their well-decorated 1911?
 
A .38 Revolver round holds a lot more powder than a .380 auto round.
Click to expand...

You are aware that the 38 SPL was originally a black powder round, yes? As such, it required substantial case capacity to hold enough black powder to propel the bullet at a moderate rate.

Compared to the 9mm, the 38 has much larger case capacity, but that is misleading.

My Hornady manual shows that a 124 gr 9mm uses 5.1 gr of Unique to achieve 1100 fps, while a 125 gr 38 spl uses 6.1 gr of the same powder to achieve 100 fps less (1000 fps). The results are similar for W-231 powder.

The .38 Spl case towers over the 9mm, but size comparisons between cases is irrelevant, especially when one case is filled largely with air...
 
In the winters of South Dakota I don't carry my Sig P232 much, although it's the most naturaly accurate shooter for me. The amount of insulated clothing worn in the winter is a concern even at close ranges, and as a civilian I have no business firing "long range" in self defense.

Winter carry is either a S&W 649 .357 or a Sig P239 in .40 caliber.

Summer carry is generally a Sig P232 in .380, Sig P239 in 9mm/.40 cal or the S&W 649 in .357.

BUG (if carried) is a S&W 642 in .38

:cool:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top