.38 spl for self defence? man shot 5 times in face lives

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Anyone, and I mean anyone, who makes decisions about the effectiveness of a cartridge based on a circumstances like this and an article with little information is on the low end of the intelligence scale. There's a big reason why so many hunters don't like head shots on big game, wounding shots are very likely. Just cause one is shot in the head, neck or both doesn't automatically mean they suffered DRT injuries. Personally in a case like this another so-called better caliber/cartridge might not have done any better. We will never know unless someone wants to be a test dummy for identical shooting with other cartridges.

But here's the important part....... Dead or not did it work? Did it stop an attack? Seems to me it worked just fine.

For those jumpimg on the cartridge debate based on this ONE case...... get a grip.
 
Guns and bullets do wierd things.

Give you an example I was on an investigation where a guy tried to shoot himself with a 44 Mag in the chest.

Made a heck of a mess of his insides, passed through and really made a mess of the waterbed he was setting on.

He lived.

Should we say that 44 Mags aren't heavy enough to kill a person???? I think not.

I did a bit of CSI work, seen a lot of gunshot wounds, all I really gained from my experience is guns and bullets do wierd things.
 
I'm not sure if it's been said or not, I'm still reading the thread; but as far as news articles and police reports go, and nicked ear is "a bullet wound". ;)
 
The skull is very resistant to damage. Bullets with a round nose profile of any caliber will often glance off the rounded surface of the skull. There are a lot of places where a round might go through someone's head or neck and not hit any vital structure.

Although I don't think it can be said that it didn't work, since I guarantee getting shot in the head five times made the guy stop doing whatever it was that made his victim shoot him in the first place.
 
There were people within spitting distance of ground zero in Hiroshima and Nagasaki that survived the atomic blast...and big burly men who are dropped by a single shot from from a 22lr. The attack was stopped, mission accomplished.
 
Why does everybody have to have a body?
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It's not the body Old Grump, it's the fact he, if armed, could have swapped lead with her. Orr he could have had FRIENDS.

She Winchester'ed her gun (that is emptied it) on one attacker. That is not good. One 12 gauge round would have ended him as a threat and left her with ammo (plus it takes time to shoot six shots, more than it takes to fire one 12!)

Deaf
 
Maybe he did not. Then again, it was a crawlspace, so maybe he was on all fours and shots glanced off his head and into his torso, on trajectories toward his abdomen.
 
And maybe space alien ghosts yanked the bullets out of his face and stuck them in his stomach and other various and sundry body parts. :p

Me?

I'm betting on the reporter getting the "shot 5 times in the face" from one of his sources in the police department who didn't know squat about what really happened.

Hell, I had a couple of sources like that when I was a reporter. Used them for color, but certainly not facts!
 
The threat was stopped, the family is safe, and the bad guy's wounds made him easy pickings for the Police. Very successful shooting. Kudos to Mom. :D
 
Some pertinent information:

Man shot 20 times by .45 ACP and survives:

http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/64307962.html

Man shot 21 times by 9mm and survives:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/08/10/man-shot-21-times-and-survives/

Famous FBI shootout, Mike Platt continued to return fire after being shot 5 times with 9mm by trained FBI agents - he was not on drugs and not wearing body armor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

Looks like the only thing worth a darn for self defense is the Apache gunship's 30mm cannon, right?

I guess it is worth noting that he was still "alive", not a "threat". I doubt .410 7 1/2 shot from the Judge or Governor is going to kill, but it could stop the threat.
 
"Looks like the only thing worth a darn for self defense is the Apache gunship's 30mm cannon, right?"

Fuh! What a piddling, trivial, thing that is! The only people who depend on something like that are the ones who have a death wish!

:D
 
Great Outcome

She stopped the attack. That's what it is all about. The fact that she does not have to live with having taken a human life is the bonus.

We should all hope for such a great result. She successfully defended herself and kids.

As a dental tech in the USAF I saw the result of a 12 gauge in the mouth....suicide attempt. Yup attempt...the woman lived. The docs and security police surmised that she bent over to pull the trigger thus pointing the barrel out the side of her face. Made a hell of a mess, birdshot in both the Maxilla and the Mandible and a big hole in her cheek.

As I have seen again and again here, and experienced in person. Shot placement is the key.
 
Well here's the thing. Every so often you will get an abnormality to the normality. He is the abnormality. Now also in self defense you are suppose to shoot center of mass if possible and make them stop what they are doing. he stopped so the gun and ammo did its job. Just because he did or did not die because of her forced attempt to make him stop that actually made him stop is irrelevant. He stopped, Her family is safe and his criminal career is probably ruined if he is disabled. But that's just my take on it.
 
Man shot 20 times by .45 ACP and survives:

http://www.ktvb.com/news/local/64307962.html

Man shot 21 times by 9mm and survives:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...-and-survives/

Famous FBI shootout, Mike Platt continued to return fire after being shot 5 times with 9mm by trained FBI agents - he was not on drugs and not wearing body armor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_FBI_Miami_shootout

Looks like the only thing worth a darn for self defense is the Apache gunship's 30mm cannon, right?
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It is amazing how the human body can be so tough and so fragile at the same time, isn't it? :)
 
The 38Spl out of a 2" barrel is very marginal. You have to be VERY picky about your ammo.

In standard pressure I trust the Buffalo Bore hollowpoints. Their full wadcutter loaded full power has merit too. The Hornady Critical Defense standard pressure are...not *terrible* but I'm not sure I fully trust 'em.

In +P it's a bit better. Winchester's 130gr JHP is OK. Speer's 135gr is good. Remmie's 158+P plain lead hollowpoint works. Buffalo Bore's +P stuff is awesome, with their 158 reigning supreme - but it's not for the lighter guns. The Hornady Critical Defense in 38+P has merit. And...that's really getting towards the end of the list!

If it's not one of those, it's likely to fail to expand...at that point (except for the plain lead 158 lead hollowpoints based on the "Keith type" and the SOLE full-power wadcutter by Buffalo Bore) you're shooting crap.

Same with the 380 - you need to be really picky. The 9mm has developed to a point where there's fewer bad loads but still some. The 357Mag, 40S&W and 45ACP, it's actually hard to go wrong, but you can.
 
thats some good aim though

How do you live with 5 gun shot wounds to the face and neck area by a 38 ? is a 38 not good for self defence now?
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it is possible some of the wounds/shots were flashburns, grazes, andor other non-life threatening hits(piece of the chin as an example).
 
Shot placement! It's all about shot placement. I 've seen big game shot multiple times with monster rifle cartridges that fail to go down immediately, because they hunter didn't hit anything vital; conversely, I have seen big game go down with a single shot from a 22 RF. It's all about shot placement as much it is about the round.
 
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