.38 special
- Thread starter mnero
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SwampYankee
New member
.357 Magnum is great BUT try keeping yourself on target for that second shot. If you are pushing 14 gr. of 2400 behind a 158 gr SWC, it's tough to do. The damn gun will almost be knocked out of your hand and if that first shot missed, you're only hope is that the massive ball of flame will confuse your attacker long enough for you to hit him with your gun- because if he was moving at you before you missed him, he is still likely to be coming at you after you missed him.
And never mind the fact that you are pretty sure the gun blew up in you hand (it didn't, but if you load a .357 mag to it's maximum safe pressure with a heavy grain bullet and a slow powder you're jaw is going to be on the floor).
I won't recommend the .22 for self defense but you can put 5 into a target in the same amount of time you can put 2 .357's into the same target.
.38 Special is just fine by me.
And never mind the fact that you are pretty sure the gun blew up in you hand (it didn't, but if you load a .357 mag to it's maximum safe pressure with a heavy grain bullet and a slow powder you're jaw is going to be on the floor).
I won't recommend the .22 for self defense but you can put 5 into a target in the same amount of time you can put 2 .357's into the same target.
.38 Special is just fine by me.
Nosparetime
New member
If I knew I was going to be in a firefight with a handgun I would use one of my 45ACP's. But in my car is a S&W 640 in 38. It is so convenient with a inside the waistband holster or I can carry it in my front pocket of my heavy jeans. I have taught many a CHL class with it in my pocket and no one the wiser.
My wife keeps a S&W Model 15 in the tv room and a 686 in the bedroom. All of these guns are loaded with Fed Hydra Shoks in 38.
The K-frame is a great training gun for novices and experts both.
My favorite ammo to load is 45ACP and 38 Special. You have so many ways to go with either. Right now my 2 1050's are set up for those two calibers.
My wife keeps a S&W Model 15 in the tv room and a 686 in the bedroom. All of these guns are loaded with Fed Hydra Shoks in 38.
The K-frame is a great training gun for novices and experts both.
My favorite ammo to load is 45ACP and 38 Special. You have so many ways to go with either. Right now my 2 1050's are set up for those two calibers.
Bill DeShivs
New member
The .38 Special is just about all the handgun that any man needs. It's also the largest caliber that most people can control comfortably.
I haven't read all thwe posts yet, but just getting through the first page some excellent comments. It's a great round. I miss my father's fine Victory model he picked up new at war's end (and nicer than most Vs) entrusted to me that got stolen years ago 
. I mostly view all my .357s as great platforms for .38 shooting 
My 65LS is loaded with +Ps for SD/HD most of the time, with the stronger .357 usually left to my New Vaqueros for trail use, with the first round or two .38/.357 snakeshot. Still, even they see more .38 shooting than .357, especially target.
. I mostly view all my .357s as great platforms for .38 shooting My 65LS is loaded with +Ps for SD/HD most of the time, with the stronger .357 usually left to my New Vaqueros for trail use, with the first round or two .38/.357 snakeshot. Still, even they see more .38 shooting than .357, especially target.I have somewhat mixed feelings about the cartridge. On the one hand, I can't really think of a good reason to buy a .38 Special revolver if a comparable model in .357 Magnum is available at the same price. However, most of the time a .38 Special-only revolver is substantially less expensive than a comparable .357 Magnum. That being the case, I can see good reason to buy a .38-only gun particularly when talking about small guns like J-Frames. To my mind, a .357 Magnum is best from a K-Frame sized gun or larger. In a small gun, I have no intention of shooting Magnums, so I may as well save myself some money and buy a .38 since that's all I'm going to shoot anyway.
As far as the cartridge itself is concerned, I think .38 Special is a superb round. .38 Special from a service-sized revolver is about the lightest recoiling revolver that still offers major-caliber performance. I have yet to meet anyone who could not shoot a .38 Special from a medium-frame revolver acceptably after a moderate amount of practice, the same cannot be said for most of the larger calibers.
I also feel that .38 Special is a nearly ideal cartridge for a small pocket gun. It is not until you get to a 9mm or larger that you begin to get terminal effectiveness equal or greater than that of a good .38 +P hollowpoint and the cartridges that equal or exceed it are either difficult to find in a revolver or produce particularly fierce recoil from a J-Frame sized gun. While there are some 9mm semi-autos that are as small or smaller than a J-Frame, I simply cannot make myself entirely trust a major-caliber semi-automatic that has been miniaturized to that degree to be completely reliable (guns of this nature seem to be much more sensitive to cleaning, ammunition, and limp wristing than their larger counterparts).
As far as the cartridge itself is concerned, I think .38 Special is a superb round. .38 Special from a service-sized revolver is about the lightest recoiling revolver that still offers major-caliber performance. I have yet to meet anyone who could not shoot a .38 Special from a medium-frame revolver acceptably after a moderate amount of practice, the same cannot be said for most of the larger calibers.
I also feel that .38 Special is a nearly ideal cartridge for a small pocket gun. It is not until you get to a 9mm or larger that you begin to get terminal effectiveness equal or greater than that of a good .38 +P hollowpoint and the cartridges that equal or exceed it are either difficult to find in a revolver or produce particularly fierce recoil from a J-Frame sized gun. While there are some 9mm semi-autos that are as small or smaller than a J-Frame, I simply cannot make myself entirely trust a major-caliber semi-automatic that has been miniaturized to that degree to be completely reliable (guns of this nature seem to be much more sensitive to cleaning, ammunition, and limp wristing than their larger counterparts).
There was a brief run of Model 14's with 4" barrels made for Dayton Sporting Goods. It's pretty much a Model 15, but it's marked as a 14.
Yes, collecting K-38's is a disease.
Compare a Model 19 to a Model 15. At first blush, they appear very similar, but the 15 is lighter due to the shorter cylinder and lack of an underlug. Balance is ever-so-slightly different.
Compare a 15 to a 686, and the difference is very apparent. Is it enough to matter to most folks? Perhaps not, but I know what I like, and I'm not changin'.
There is also a theoretical potential for better mechanical accuracy when shooting .38's from a dedicated cylinder rather than a longer one meant to accommodate the .357. I doubt there are many people alive who could take advantage of the difference, however.
MashieNiblick
Moderator
the .357mag case length was developed in 1934, for powders of that day/age
one does not need a .357mag firearm to fire .357mag equivalent loads today, just ask/take a look at .45GAP = .45ACP + P
to think otherwise is completely reediculous
case in point:
- Hornady Crit Defense, 110gr, .38special + P, 1090fps, 4" barrel, $28/25
- Fiocchi XTPB, 110gr, .38special + P (++)(shhhh. . . .), 1100fps, 3" barrel, $30/50 ~= Hornady Crit Defense, 125gr, .357mag, 1500fps, 8" barrel, $30/25
Grazie, Italia.
they also make an ~= to above fmjfn + P plinker @ $21/50
- MN
one does not need a .357mag firearm to fire .357mag equivalent loads today, just ask/take a look at .45GAP = .45ACP + P
to think otherwise is completely reediculous
case in point:
- Hornady Crit Defense, 110gr, .38special + P, 1090fps, 4" barrel, $28/25
- Fiocchi XTPB, 110gr, .38special + P (++)(shhhh. . . .), 1100fps, 3" barrel, $30/50 ~= Hornady Crit Defense, 125gr, .357mag, 1500fps, 8" barrel, $30/25
Grazie, Italia.
they also make an ~= to above fmjfn + P plinker @ $21/50
- MN
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MashieNiblick
Moderator
7,710cm barrel ~= 3" barrel vs 8" barrel vs 8" barrel. . .
note: edited the price as quoted above as well
note: edited the price as quoted above as well
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Bill DeShivs
New member
The .357 was developed with a longer case solely to prevent it being fired in .38 Special chambers. The .38 Special was originally a black powder cartridge-that's why the cases are so long.
I would guess that all of the above has put to rest the fallacy that the .38 is an obsolete round too weak for anything but killing flies or maybe a mouse at close range. I also love the .38. I totally agree. (My latest K38 I bought at a gun show attendee new in it's gold box for $250 about 3 years ago.) I have several and always will. Probably loaded over 50,000 rounds of it.
As for shooting them in .357 chambers, I had tried for over 2 years, to find a .357 that shot .38's well. Bought a bunch of revolvers of different models and brands. No luck. Wrote a letter to Bill Jordan and asked him for advice. He wrote back that he had the same problem for a long time. He explained that the problem was the extra chamber length. Advised I try a Python. I did. No more problem with .38's not shooting good groups from .357. Have also had good luck seating bullets in .38 cases to copy length of .357's and that helped quite a bit on accuracy in other guns when loaded to .38 pressures.
As to the comment of .357's being loud and large muzzle flash. I load 125 JHP with 8 grains of Bullseye for an intimidator round. Huge fireball and really earsplitting report.....Just for kicks. Not a real accurate load but it is impressive....John
As for shooting them in .357 chambers, I had tried for over 2 years, to find a .357 that shot .38's well. Bought a bunch of revolvers of different models and brands. No luck. Wrote a letter to Bill Jordan and asked him for advice. He wrote back that he had the same problem for a long time. He explained that the problem was the extra chamber length. Advised I try a Python. I did. No more problem with .38's not shooting good groups from .357. Have also had good luck seating bullets in .38 cases to copy length of .357's and that helped quite a bit on accuracy in other guns when loaded to .38 pressures.
As to the comment of .357's being loud and large muzzle flash. I load 125 JHP with 8 grains of Bullseye for an intimidator round. Huge fireball and really earsplitting report.....Just for kicks. Not a real accurate load but it is impressive....John
My last trip to the creek to check out what the flooding did, I came across a Cotton Mouth at a distance of about 4 feet. Pretty impressive looking with its mouth open and head back for a strike. Out came the 64 Smith & Wesson. Rounds 1 and 2 in the cylinder were Speer Shot Capsules with #8 shot. Shot #1 did a pretty good job of getting his attention on a different matter than biting me. Cranked past the second shot shell to a lite loaded 125 SWC, and put a head shot on him. Game Over.
Five minutes later and 100 yards down stream on a gravel bar I stopped and walk over to the waters edge for a look. The next thing I know the wife is yelling snake, while setting on the 4 wheeler. I get the second Cotton Mouth located about 4 feet from the 4 wheeler where I had just walked. Shot Capsuel #2 also had it's attention diverted in short order. Again a 125 SWC makes a real mess of it's head.
I have all kinds of handguns, in various calibers. I carry my 638, and 64 with a 4" HB the most of all my handguns.
The old 64 is very accurate. It is not real noisey. This cannot be said about 357 Magnum ammunition. It has plenty of power for most utility applications on the trail where I live. It is fairly light to carry. It is easy to shoot accurately. I shoot it in Defensive Pistol Matches. It will hold it's own if I am doing my part. If I get beat, the shooter would have probably beat me shooting my 1911 also. As for recoil and knockdown power. It has as much as most women can tolerate, and a lot of men too for that matter.
The 38 Special will be around for a long time to come. When you review the choices in compact carry revolvers you will find most are chambered in 357 Mag and will shoot 38 Special ammunition, or in 38 Special exclusively.
Bob
Five minutes later and 100 yards down stream on a gravel bar I stopped and walk over to the waters edge for a look. The next thing I know the wife is yelling snake, while setting on the 4 wheeler. I get the second Cotton Mouth located about 4 feet from the 4 wheeler where I had just walked. Shot Capsuel #2 also had it's attention diverted in short order. Again a 125 SWC makes a real mess of it's head.
I have all kinds of handguns, in various calibers. I carry my 638, and 64 with a 4" HB the most of all my handguns.
The old 64 is very accurate. It is not real noisey. This cannot be said about 357 Magnum ammunition. It has plenty of power for most utility applications on the trail where I live. It is fairly light to carry. It is easy to shoot accurately. I shoot it in Defensive Pistol Matches. It will hold it's own if I am doing my part. If I get beat, the shooter would have probably beat me shooting my 1911 also. As for recoil and knockdown power. It has as much as most women can tolerate, and a lot of men too for that matter.
The 38 Special will be around for a long time to come. When you review the choices in compact carry revolvers you will find most are chambered in 357 Mag and will shoot 38 Special ammunition, or in 38 Special exclusively.
Bob
Horseless Trooper
New member
I have fallen in love with the .38 Special in the last couple of years. I carried a Colt Detective Special as my back-up for 20 plus years but .357 Magnum was always my first choice. Lately I carry the .38 more than anything else. About 2 years ago I picked up a 6in. K-38 in a fit of Adam-12 nostalgia and I have been carrying it as my duty weapon ever since. It's ability to produce fast double action hits is almost magical and with modern ammo I don't feel horribly undergunned. My main CCW for the last 2 years have been a 4in. Model 10-7 or my father's old 2in. M&P. I can't explain it but I have developed an irrational love of K frame .38s in my old age.
38
I have owned many subcompact 9mms,the awful amt 380 and pocket 45.For some reason i always wind up taking the old colt cobra with me.the 38 certainly did away with lee harvey oswald,john lennon,and officer tippet among others.I do love the new glock 38 for more dangerous situations where a quick reload might be needed..but 90 percent of the time i feel confident that if pointed at the chest at 6 feet or so,the 38 will get me home safe.
I have owned many subcompact 9mms,the awful amt 380 and pocket 45.For some reason i always wind up taking the old colt cobra with me.the 38 certainly did away with lee harvey oswald,john lennon,and officer tippet among others.I do love the new glock 38 for more dangerous situations where a quick reload might be needed..but 90 percent of the time i feel confident that if pointed at the chest at 6 feet or so,the 38 will get me home safe.