I reload the .38 spl with black powder and a (nominally)158 grain bullet. Modern cases are obviously made with thicker brass since it's a struggle to load even 21 grains, and still get a tiny amount of bullet creep. In .357 cases 21.5 grains of 3F black work just fine. I was truly amazed at the accuracy of these loads at 25 yards. A lot of smoke, concussion and fire; in other words, FUN.
38 Special . . . 38 Super . . .the diff is . . . ?
- Thread starter Prof Young
- Start date
Mike Irwin
Staff
When the .38 Special was developed the balloon head case was still the normal case style. It had a greater capacity than the solid head cases that we now use.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Well, I finally made it up to the 1940 Remington Dealer's price list, and black powder loaded .38 Special cartridges (and .44 Special) have finally been discontinued.
In fact, all blackpowder-loaded cartridges (with the exception of the .22 LR Palma Match, which was loaded with Lesmoke powder) had been discontinued.
Additionally, many of the American rounds are now gone, as well.
Some of the old, popular BP and transitional cartridges were still being loaded, such as the .38-55, the .45-70, the .40-65, and a few others, but gone were old stalwarts like the .50-70, the .45-75, the .45-60.
The effects of the depression and the coming war were finally taking their toll. I'm just shocked that the black powder loadings continued as long as they did.
In fact, all blackpowder-loaded cartridges (with the exception of the .22 LR Palma Match, which was loaded with Lesmoke powder) had been discontinued.
Additionally, many of the American rounds are now gone, as well.
Some of the old, popular BP and transitional cartridges were still being loaded, such as the .38-55, the .45-70, the .40-65, and a few others, but gone were old stalwarts like the .50-70, the .45-75, the .45-60.
The effects of the depression and the coming war were finally taking their toll. I'm just shocked that the black powder loadings continued as long as they did.
Cosmodragoon
New member
As someone whose never been exposed to .38 Super, this has been a fun and informative thread. With some other "popular 38/9mm cartridges" coming up, I'd add that there are a few 115-grain factory loads for .357 Sig in the 1400-1500 ballpark.
Model12Win
Moderator
Extremely cool thread, I like it this one.
Love the .38 spc. Saw a CO toting one yesterday.
Love the .38 spc. Saw a CO toting one yesterday.
Something I haven't seen mentioned, yet, is the potential DANGER of confusion .38 Special and .38 Super.
Despite the difference in specs, there are .38 and .357 revolvers that will chamber the .38 Super. And, often they will also FIRE the .38 Super
, which a magnum would not mind much, but a .38 Special might get rather upset with. 
The Super spec is .384" dia. at the case mouth, and the Special is .379". Because ammo is slightly smaller than max spec (to aid chambering) and chambers are slightly larger than the max ammo spec, stacking tolerances means many .38 Specials will take the Super in the chamber.
Never heard of anyone getting a .38 Special into a .38 Super (besides the rim, its a bit too long) but people have put .38 Supers in .38Specials.
Never heard of anyone blowing up or damaging their .38Special because of it, but all that means is that I've never heard of it happening.
Despite the difference in specs, there are .38 and .357 revolvers that will chamber the .38 Super. And, often they will also FIRE the .38 Super
, which a magnum would not mind much, but a .38 Special might get rather upset with. The Super spec is .384" dia. at the case mouth, and the Special is .379". Because ammo is slightly smaller than max spec (to aid chambering) and chambers are slightly larger than the max ammo spec, stacking tolerances means many .38 Specials will take the Super in the chamber.
Never heard of anyone getting a .38 Special into a .38 Super (besides the rim, its a bit too long) but people have put .38 Supers in .38Specials.
Never heard of anyone blowing up or damaging their .38Special because of it, but all that means is that I've never heard of it happening.
A few boxes of 38 Auto and 38 Super Automatic ammo from the 60s to the 90s
The cartridge itself is identical only the loadings were different.
Not only did the name of the cartridge differ over the decades but it was not always consistently the case that the nickel cases were used for the higher pressure ammo. Some manufacturers used the brass.
Once Colt introduced the Colt Super 38 guns in the higher pressure load pressure was placed on S&W to come up with a more powerful loading for their revolvers. This led first to the 38/44 and later the .357 Magnum.
The ammo was originally called the 38 Colt Automatic (aka 38acp) over time the moniker 38 Super round grew.
tipoc
The cartridge itself is identical only the loadings were different.
Not only did the name of the cartridge differ over the decades but it was not always consistently the case that the nickel cases were used for the higher pressure ammo. Some manufacturers used the brass.
Once Colt introduced the Colt Super 38 guns in the higher pressure load pressure was placed on S&W to come up with a more powerful loading for their revolvers. This led first to the 38/44 and later the .357 Magnum.
The ammo was originally called the 38 Colt Automatic (aka 38acp) over time the moniker 38 Super round grew.
tipoc
A reminder to note the product code for the Winchester Super X 38 Super ammo in the pics above. It's X38ASHP. It's the same for the boxes differently labeled over the years. Type X ammo, 38 Automatic, Silvertip Hollow Point. Win. still produces it.
http://www.winchester.com/products/handgun-ammunition/Performance/Super-X-handgun/Pages/X38ASHP.aspx
tipoc
http://www.winchester.com/products/handgun-ammunition/Performance/Super-X-handgun/Pages/X38ASHP.aspx
tipoc
I suppose a rough analogy is that 38 Super is to 9MM as 357 is to 38 Special. A more powerful load in a longer case to prevent it being fired in pistols not chambered for it. Though since the 38 Super was developed from the 38 ACP
that isn't quite right.
Years ago in Guns and Ammo one of the writers found that firing 9MM in
a Colt Government Model 38 Super was merely a matter of changing the barrel and magazine.
that isn't quite right.
Years ago in Guns and Ammo one of the writers found that firing 9MM in
a Colt Government Model 38 Super was merely a matter of changing the barrel and magazine.