.357SIG ... a passing fad?
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I keep hearing the 9mm +p+ arguments and it makes me sick.
"I can make a VW Beetle beat a Porsche, therefore, Porsches are a passing fad, because my +p+ Beetle is just as fast."
Each car, and therefore each caliber was built with certain things in mind. As for the guy behind the counter, let's say he's a "Chevy" kind of guy. You walk in and say, "I'm interested in a Ford truck." What's he going to tell you? Yep, the Ford is nothing but a passing fad. What you really want is a Chevy. Gee, I've never heard that one before!
The .357Sig is a Superior caliber in everyway. It has predictably balistics, reliable feed, consistancy in expectations, and this is all due to the fact that these things were criterias in the design phase.
I find going with a 9mm +p+ to be like those Asians in So Cal who buy a Honda Civic and then tries to turbo the hell out of it. If you want those performance numbers, get a .357Sig, don't try to trick out a 9mm and risk a kb! Your hands are worth more than that (I hope). And before you go flaming me, I'm asian, and I have friends who drive the lowered hondas that want to race a Porsche at every light. Don't do it. Get a 9mm as a fun round to shoot and learn proper shooting techniques on.
Get a .357Sig for defense. Just because it looks like a .40 necked down to a 9mm doesn't mean it is.
Shoot safe,
Albert
"I can make a VW Beetle beat a Porsche, therefore, Porsches are a passing fad, because my +p+ Beetle is just as fast."
Each car, and therefore each caliber was built with certain things in mind. As for the guy behind the counter, let's say he's a "Chevy" kind of guy. You walk in and say, "I'm interested in a Ford truck." What's he going to tell you? Yep, the Ford is nothing but a passing fad. What you really want is a Chevy. Gee, I've never heard that one before!
The .357Sig is a Superior caliber in everyway. It has predictably balistics, reliable feed, consistancy in expectations, and this is all due to the fact that these things were criterias in the design phase.
I find going with a 9mm +p+ to be like those Asians in So Cal who buy a Honda Civic and then tries to turbo the hell out of it. If you want those performance numbers, get a .357Sig, don't try to trick out a 9mm and risk a kb! Your hands are worth more than that (I hope). And before you go flaming me, I'm asian, and I have friends who drive the lowered hondas that want to race a Porsche at every light. Don't do it. Get a 9mm as a fun round to shoot and learn proper shooting techniques on.
Get a .357Sig for defense. Just because it looks like a .40 necked down to a 9mm doesn't mean it is.
Shoot safe,
Albert
One question I have is how user friendly is this cartridge to reload? I would be concerned with the the extra difficulties in reloading a bottleneck cartridge along with a smaller bearing surface between bullet and shell compared to straightwalled, i.e. greater danger of deeper seating of bullet upon chambering.
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I must confess that the "advantages" of .357 Sig over a 155gr .40 *&* are not clear to me.
I have shot Sig 229s in both calibers, side by side, and the only difference that I could determine was that the .357 had a noticably sharper and unpleasant recoil versus the .40.
If you are happy with it, ENJOY!
But I will take a pass.
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BOYCOTT SLICK & WESSON
"To be wronged is nothing unless you continue to remember it."
Confucius
I have shot Sig 229s in both calibers, side by side, and the only difference that I could determine was that the .357 had a noticably sharper and unpleasant recoil versus the .40.
If you are happy with it, ENJOY!
But I will take a pass.
------------------
BOYCOTT SLICK & WESSON
"To be wronged is nothing unless you continue to remember it."
Confucius
The question about reloading is a good one, because that's where the .357Sig really falls down. Now only is it a bottleneck round that needs to be lubricated, but it also has a very small load bearing surface for the bullet. There have been serveral incidents reported about bullet setback and the resulting case failure.
If you intend to reload, I'd seriously consider a different caliber.
If you intend to reload, I'd seriously consider a different caliber.
Actually, the 357 SIG is quite easy to reload safely.
Straight walled pistol shooters continue to be horrified that you would have to spray lube a case (like with rifles). It's a moot point. I even spray lube my .40 brass because the Dillon press works so much smoother and OAL has less of a variance. Afterwards, I do a gentle vibrate tumble of the rounds for 10 minutes to get the lube off.
As long as the bullet is seated correctly into the case, the 357 SIG is a very solid performer. The mouth of the case should be just barely wide enough to barely squeeze the bullet in. If you are especially careful(fanatical), you can use a light cannelure groove and light roll crimp, which makes the bullet virtually impossible to slip into the case; this works great.
My 357 SIG is the cheapest caliber I reload since I can get plated and FMJ for only around $45/1000.
Straight walled pistol shooters continue to be horrified that you would have to spray lube a case (like with rifles). It's a moot point. I even spray lube my .40 brass because the Dillon press works so much smoother and OAL has less of a variance. Afterwards, I do a gentle vibrate tumble of the rounds for 10 minutes to get the lube off.
As long as the bullet is seated correctly into the case, the 357 SIG is a very solid performer. The mouth of the case should be just barely wide enough to barely squeeze the bullet in. If you are especially careful(fanatical), you can use a light cannelure groove and light roll crimp, which makes the bullet virtually impossible to slip into the case; this works great.
My 357 SIG is the cheapest caliber I reload since I can get plated and FMJ for only around $45/1000.
parabellum
New member
petej88--I heard about some incidents of case neck separation with this cartridge. Supposedly, all were from early runs of factory ammo.( Improper annealing, maybe? ) Have you had any experience like that? I was wondering, since your reusing the brass, if your concerned about this at all.
Rainbow Six
New member
Well, I picked up two boxes of Winchester Law Enforcement 125gr RANGER "TALON"s today, just in case the .357SIG caliber goes away tomorrow. 
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For Sale: SIG P220 - see handgun classified forum.
***************************
Georgia TFL'ers get together:
May 20, 2000-From 3pm to 6pm
http://www.wolfcreek-gun.com
***************************
R6...aka...Chris
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For Sale: SIG P220 - see handgun classified forum.
***************************
Georgia TFL'ers get together:
May 20, 2000-From 3pm to 6pm
http://www.wolfcreek-gun.com
***************************
R6...aka...Chris
Outrageous cost of .357 Sig reloading components and ammo???
Components are very cheap...about the same as reloading 9mm and it does not get much cheaper than that! (I am just starting to reload .357 Sig, and it is very easy and cheap, unlike what the pessimists say). Not only that, but I can buy a ton of bullets for 9mm and use them to reload for both my practice 9mm and my hunting/practice .357 Sig. There is a lot of versatility there and I can stockpile components while covering multiple cartridges.
Ammo today is about the same price for .40 or .357 Sig where I live. There is a difference of 50 cents per box for S&B FMJ ammo. Ammo cost just is not a good argument any more like it used to be (the anti-.357 arguers are running out of good arguments against it as it keeps gaining ground )
If you are not planning on reloading the round, then just buy Blazer ammo for $8 a 50 round box.
The things said now about the .357 Sig are the same things said about the .40 when it came out. But, the people saying it now are .40 fans mostly, which is the irony of the situation. Meanwhile .357 Sig is becoming more and more popular and law enforcement agencies keep picking it up.
Passing fad? Nope, it is on the upswing big time and so far there is no reason why it would not go all the way to become THE premier law enforcement cartridge in the near future.
So far, street results of the .357 Sig show nothing but raging success in stopping bad guys in there tracks. It ain't no magic bullet, but it does the job really well out of a small platform.
I don't see how a 125gr bullet moving at 1450 fps out of a medium sized pistol with low recoil, holding 15 rounds or so could NOT catch on. The ballistics are already proven in the .357 Magnum for many years, except that the .357 Sig offers it all in a much better package. What's not to like?
In Glocks, there is no doubt that the .357 is going to become the round of choice because it is so darn accurate, it holds on extra round in the full-cap mags, and the chamber is fully supported. As people are wary of the .40 Glocks, the people that want a little more power are going to veer toward the .357 Glocks for the fully supported chamber and thicker brass web.
If the .357 sig does turn out to be a dud....you can always buy a .40 barrel for your gun and keep shooting. That kind of versatility has not been seen before in my experience and gives you almost no reason not to give it a try.
And, even if it gets hard to find and you end up shooting .40 ammo with a new barrel, you gun will always say ".357" on the side, and that is way cool enough
Components are very cheap...about the same as reloading 9mm and it does not get much cheaper than that! (I am just starting to reload .357 Sig, and it is very easy and cheap, unlike what the pessimists say). Not only that, but I can buy a ton of bullets for 9mm and use them to reload for both my practice 9mm and my hunting/practice .357 Sig. There is a lot of versatility there and I can stockpile components while covering multiple cartridges.
Ammo today is about the same price for .40 or .357 Sig where I live. There is a difference of 50 cents per box for S&B FMJ ammo. Ammo cost just is not a good argument any more like it used to be (the anti-.357 arguers are running out of good arguments against it as it keeps gaining ground
)If you are not planning on reloading the round, then just buy Blazer ammo for $8 a 50 round box.
The things said now about the .357 Sig are the same things said about the .40 when it came out. But, the people saying it now are .40 fans mostly, which is the irony of the situation. Meanwhile .357 Sig is becoming more and more popular and law enforcement agencies keep picking it up.
Passing fad? Nope, it is on the upswing big time and so far there is no reason why it would not go all the way to become THE premier law enforcement cartridge in the near future.
So far, street results of the .357 Sig show nothing but raging success in stopping bad guys in there tracks. It ain't no magic bullet, but it does the job really well out of a small platform.
I don't see how a 125gr bullet moving at 1450 fps out of a medium sized pistol with low recoil, holding 15 rounds or so could NOT catch on. The ballistics are already proven in the .357 Magnum for many years, except that the .357 Sig offers it all in a much better package. What's not to like?
In Glocks, there is no doubt that the .357 is going to become the round of choice because it is so darn accurate, it holds on extra round in the full-cap mags, and the chamber is fully supported. As people are wary of the .40 Glocks, the people that want a little more power are going to veer toward the .357 Glocks for the fully supported chamber and thicker brass web.
If the .357 sig does turn out to be a dud....you can always buy a .40 barrel for your gun and keep shooting. That kind of versatility has not been seen before in my experience and gives you almost no reason not to give it a try.
And, even if it gets hard to find and you end up shooting .40 ammo with a new barrel, you gun will always say ".357" on the side, and that is way cool enough
HYDRA-SHOKz
New member
IMO the .357sig is an answer without ever there being a question.For one you can get 9mm and .40 loads that match the .357sig,such as Corbon or Triton.Also 9mm and .40's are cheaper then the .357.These companies keep trying to make the perfect handgun caliber which they will never do.There are plenty of choices already available.A reliable firearm and shot placement are the most important keys.I dont think the 357sig or the 400Corbon will last very long.If you want a 357 stick with the magnum. SHOKz
.I dont think the 357sig or the 400Corbon will last very long.If you want a 357 stick with the magnum. SHOKz"
Your right about the 400 corbon but not the 357 sig. It is the best handgun round going. It is much more accurate than the 40 and it hits harder. The 9mm well thats a plinker and a beginer round only. The 45 and 10mm are good but require a large frame. The 357 sig has been adopted by several departments including the Secret service. It is going strong while the 9mm is fading as a law enforcement round.
PAT
Your right about the 400 corbon but not the 357 sig. It is the best handgun round going. It is much more accurate than the 40 and it hits harder. The 9mm well thats a plinker and a beginer round only. The 45 and 10mm are good but require a large frame. The 357 sig has been adopted by several departments including the Secret service. It is going strong while the 9mm is fading as a law enforcement round.
PAT
HYDRA-SHOKz
New member
355sigfan.I am not knocking your choice of the 357sig.I am well aware of what in can and can not do.It is not noticely different then a .40 135gr corbon.My HK .40 is just as accurate as any 357sig.If you want to pay more for your ammo and search harder to find it go for it. SHOKz
Rainbow Six
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It is not noticely different then a .40 135gr corbon[/quote]
Absolutely not true based on my experience with my G22's and G31/G31C/G33. Fired from my G22, CORBON 135gr has much more pronounced recoil than ANY .357SIG ammo I have fired through my G31/G31C/G33, which means quicker follow up shots for me. I can shoot all 125gr .357SIG loads better than 135gr CORBON when doing double taps or rapid fire strings. Even my G33 sub-compact with 125gr JHP is easier to follow up with than my G22 with 135gr CORBON!
Also, the accuracy is nowhere close between my G22 with most forty loads and my G31/G31C/G33 with all loads I have tried. The .357SIG seems to be inherently more accurate than the .40. Especially, as mentioned above, during speed drills.
I'm not saying that the .357SIG is for everyone. Neither is the .40. However, there is a huge noticeable difference between the load you mentioned and all the .357SIG loads I have shot. They may not be ballistic, but they do exist.
Given the faster accurate shooting capabilities that the .357SIG round gives me with admittedly similar ballistics, I choose the .357 from a user standpoint. Based on my experience, the .357SIG gives you ballistics that are *at least* as good as the 135gr CORBON .40 but in a more manageable format.
Here's a Shoot-N-C target that I used recently for some speed shooting with my G31C. I don't have any .40 speed targets to compare with since I have never gotten a speed target with my G22 that I wouldn't be embarrassed to show anyone.
This target shows the results of two drills. I first loaded six rounds into a single clip and shot double tap(DT)/top left, DT/top right, single/bottom left, single/bottom right as fast as I could pull the trigger with a flash sight picture from about 15 feet. I then loaded a full clip fired a dt/left top, DT/right top and then emptied the remainder of the clip into the center diamond as fast as I could pull the trigger from a few feet further from the target than the first drill was shot, maybe 18-20 feet.
Here's a picture of the rear side of the cardboard backing that absorbed the full 100 rounds that I shot during this speed drill session. Nice groups, if I say so myself, considering that I shot all drills as fast as I could shoot and only used a flash sight picture. No deliberate accuracy work, just going for speed. Mostly doube taps and rapid strings of four or more shots at a time.
If you can do this with 135gr CORBON .40 my hat is off to you. I can't. However, I can with any 125gr .357SIG ammo that I have tried. I notice a difference.
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For Sale: SIG P220 - see handgun classified forum.
***************************
Georgia TFL'ers get together:
May 20, 2000-From 3pm to 6pm
http://www.wolfcreek-gun.com
***************************
R6...aka...Chris
Absolutely not true based on my experience with my G22's and G31/G31C/G33. Fired from my G22, CORBON 135gr has much more pronounced recoil than ANY .357SIG ammo I have fired through my G31/G31C/G33, which means quicker follow up shots for me. I can shoot all 125gr .357SIG loads better than 135gr CORBON when doing double taps or rapid fire strings. Even my G33 sub-compact with 125gr JHP is easier to follow up with than my G22 with 135gr CORBON!
Also, the accuracy is nowhere close between my G22 with most forty loads and my G31/G31C/G33 with all loads I have tried. The .357SIG seems to be inherently more accurate than the .40. Especially, as mentioned above, during speed drills.
I'm not saying that the .357SIG is for everyone. Neither is the .40. However, there is a huge noticeable difference between the load you mentioned and all the .357SIG loads I have shot. They may not be ballistic, but they do exist.
Given the faster accurate shooting capabilities that the .357SIG round gives me with admittedly similar ballistics, I choose the .357 from a user standpoint. Based on my experience, the .357SIG gives you ballistics that are *at least* as good as the 135gr CORBON .40 but in a more manageable format.
Here's a Shoot-N-C target that I used recently for some speed shooting with my G31C. I don't have any .40 speed targets to compare with since I have never gotten a speed target with my G22 that I wouldn't be embarrassed to show anyone.
This target shows the results of two drills. I first loaded six rounds into a single clip and shot double tap(DT)/top left, DT/top right, single/bottom left, single/bottom right as fast as I could pull the trigger with a flash sight picture from about 15 feet. I then loaded a full clip fired a dt/left top, DT/right top and then emptied the remainder of the clip into the center diamond as fast as I could pull the trigger from a few feet further from the target than the first drill was shot, maybe 18-20 feet.
Here's a picture of the rear side of the cardboard backing that absorbed the full 100 rounds that I shot during this speed drill session. Nice groups, if I say so myself, considering that I shot all drills as fast as I could shoot and only used a flash sight picture. No deliberate accuracy work, just going for speed. Mostly doube taps and rapid strings of four or more shots at a time.
If you can do this with 135gr CORBON .40 my hat is off to you. I can't. However, I can with any 125gr .357SIG ammo that I have tried. I notice a difference.
------------------
For Sale: SIG P220 - see handgun classified forum.
***************************
Georgia TFL'ers get together:
May 20, 2000-From 3pm to 6pm
http://www.wolfcreek-gun.com
***************************
R6...aka...Chris
parabellum
New member
Careful, WESHOOT2. That's the kind of nickname that can stick with ya!
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