.357SIG ... a passing fad?

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FUD

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Just picked up a {pre-agreement} 4513TSW that I had on lay-away and I asked the dealer which .357SIG he would recommend. I posted this question earlier here on TFL and since people were equally divided between the SIG226 & the SIG229, I was going to put a deposit on which ever of the two (226 or 229) he recommended since he had both in stock. However, he told me that he can't recommend any .357SIG. He went on to say that it is basicly a 9mm round loaded to much higher pressure and I should "keep it simple" by either sticking with a 9mm, or, for more power, use the .40S&W. He ended by saying that the gunrags write great things about it (such as how happy the Texas troopers are with the round) because of all the ad money that SIG spends and that he knew nobody with a .357SIG that wasn't better off with either a 9mm +P or a .40S&W. I thanked him and left without putting a deposit on either the 226 or the 229.

Now, I'm debating if I should even get a .357SIG as I already own a .40S&W and a 9mm. Comments? Opinions? Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
fud-nra.gif
 
What kind of 9mm and .40 S&W do you have? Federal Arms Corp of America (612 780-8780) offers a .357sig conversion that simply allows you change the barrel out in your Beretta 96, Glock 20, Glock 22, Glock, Glock 23, Glock 27, Sig P229, and Taurus 100. All of the barrels are only $90. I have been tempted to buy one for the Glock 27 since it just seems cool to drop in a new barrel and have a brand new gun virtually. Check this out. I personally have 3 carry handguns (9mm, .40, and .45) and I simply don't see the need of buying anymore because they are all sort of the same. Once again, though, spending $90 for being able to shoot .357sig is appealing. Paying the outrageous price for .357sig ammo and/or reloading components is not.
 
El Rojo, I was a very big fan of S&W pistols prior to the signing of the agreement. I have ...
- 9mm: 5906 & 3913TSW
- .40S&W: 4006 & 4013TSW
... Do you know of any replacement barrels for these? Thanks, FUD.
 
Is the .357sig a passing fad? No. Alot of manufacturers are chambering guns in this caliber. Sig, HK, Glock, Beretta, Taurus, and S&W (for a short-time in the Sigma series). In addition, several Law Enforcement agencies have adopted it including the Delaware State Police, New Mexico State Police (not 100% sure), the Texas Rangers, and the US Secret Service. I also know of 1 local agency in my area that adopted this cartridge.

Is it a hopped up 9mm? Not quite. It is a far superior round in terms of performance than a 9mm+p and the bottleneck cartridge offers better reliability.

I don't know of any aftermarket barrels for the Smith and Wesson's that you have. I would personally suggest going with a Sig, either 226, 229, or 239 depending on your tastes.

I wouldn't take anyone's advise on the round unless they've fired it . I put off getting the 357 barrel for my 229 till early last year. Now the 357 barrel stays in the gun year round and the 40 sits in the cabinet. Since then I've also picked up a Sig 239 and Glock 33 in the same caliber. If youre into powerful cartridges, the 357sig is for you.

Also, check out this link for more info on the 357sig. http://www.gunnery.Net/index2.html

Hope this helps a little.

------------------
John
"Never argue with an idiot, they pull you down to their level and beat you with experience"
 
Well....

Are the .357 Magnum or .38 Spl. "passing fads?"

Probably not... and they're both basically 9mm rounds, too... :)

The .357 Sig was developed to emulate the performance found in Remington's 125-gr. JHP .357 Mag. round, and it does that nicely.

The .357 Sig. offers better performance than any of the 9mm +P loadings, and even bests some .40 S&W loads.

Granted, the .357 Sig. doesn't have the bullet-weight versatility of either the 9mm or the .40, but I don't see that to be a really big hinderance. It was designed primarily as a defensive round, not a plinking or target shooting round, and I think it fills that position quite nicely.
 
The .357Sig is nothing like a +p9mm. I own a p239 in .357 ( and 2 9mm's) and it is a blast (literally) to shot. Very flat shooter. Snappy recoil, but not unpleasant. My major complaint is not with the round, but the da/sa trigger of the Sig. I would go with the Glock for that reason. One thing about the .357 Sig is that it is a very reliable feeder because of the necked cartridge and hits like a ton. Because of the velocity of the bullet, over penetration could be a problem, but minimized with the right round. Most of the mentioned police agencies went with the .357 Sig because of the stopping power and ability to penetrate car glass and metal to get to the perp. I do not know if it is the right round for the average armed citizen, but it is fun to shoot. The cost is coming down as the round is becoming more popular. I am finding lots of reloads for it at reasonable cost.
 
The SAAMI Maximum Average Pressure (MAP) for 9mm luger is 35,000 psi. 9mm +P is 38,500. 357 SIG is 40,000 psi. That is not all that different.

Just for grins, .45 Auto is 21,000 psi, the +P is 23,000 psi. (I'll stick with this one...)

The Law Enforcement agencies using 357 SIG are all quite positive in regard to street performance. Keep in mind that there are no miracle bullets, or cartridges, and that hitting your target is the paramount concern. Knowing this, practice, practice, practice. When the chips are down, this is what you will do. If you never trained, you will be a blubbering and confused mass of goo.

Regards,

Slim
 
Boy I sure hope it's not a passing fad. A few weeks ago I picked up a Sig Pro 2340 in .357 sig. I did that only because so many LEAs were going to it and I had heard great reviews on it. That Gunnery.net link is probably your best source for info on this caliber. It was the best source I found before I made my purchase. The only problem I have run into is the selection of ammo. I went to get some ammo for the range yesterday though and the salesman told me that Federal was starting production in their American Eagle line. I have always had good luck with that ammo and I am looking forward to seeing it on the shelves. Go get ya one! So many people are getting them that I don't see how you could go wrong. IMHO

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Until the antis put a sign in their front yard that says they don't own guns, they are riding on the shirt-tail of the safety that we provide by owning them.
 
The .357 Sig is far from a passing fad. Various agencies have signed on, including the USSS, and, more importantly, have been happy with the round. Just because LE agencies accept something doesn't mean it's destined to remain popular (e.g. the 147 gr 9 mm and the 10 mm). What gives the round staying power is the praise the agencies have been heaping on it.

For myself, I like the round because it's accurate, has considerable power and, in a 32, seems to have more controllabe recoil than my 30 with "warm" loads. The recoil's not less, it's just got less torque and is over quicker.

All in all, I think I need to pick up a 32.
 
Just bought the SIG P229 Sport in .357 SIG. :D It's a great gun. Practice ammos are now about the same price as the .40 (about $9 per 50-rd). So I am seeing the .357 SIG gaining popularity.

I will do a full review of the SIG P229 Sport after I get my web-site setup. :D :D :D

[This message has been edited by thequickad (edited May 03, 2000).]
 
They don't list any of those barrels for any S&W guns. Sorry your favorite gun manufacture bent you over and their way with you. If we don't burry them for their actions, I am going to be upset.
 
Yeah, it's a passing fad and should be called the 357 BS <G>

Actually, it's such a flop, I just ordered two Steyr M357's, which should be coming in a few weeks.

The 357 SIG is so bad that it's the only successful bottlenecked cartridge to hit the U.S. in 75 years. It's so bad that it has been slowly picking up steam for over 5 years, which is just the opposite of the typical quick fad syndrome.

Some are beginning to claim that the 357 sig is the most accurate duty cartridge around.

Never mind that it can be downloaded to feel and sound just like a 9mm Luger or honked up to major magnum power. Never mind that if you have a decently feeding magazine, that cramming a 9mm bullet into a 10mm slot is a really super feature. Never mind that there are low flash factory rounds available. Never mind that you can use bullet weights from 88 to 150 grains easily. Never mind that you can use the heavier bullets to quiet the 357 SIG round down, if that is desired. And.....

I could go into my usual list but I'll spare you this time <G> Suffice it to say that it shoots rings around my .40's and has less torque and twist as well. Since the slide cycles faster and the muzzle flip is more straight up and down, my followup shots are faster than the .40 as well.

The 357 SIG is so bad that there are only around 20 plus factory cartridge versions out there, and more are jumping on the bandwagon every month or so now.

Stay away from the 357 SIG. The gun shop guy talking to you has all the facts and experience to back him up.

I forgot to mention that according to Accurate Arms Powder Company, the 357 SIG is the most ballistically consistent round they have ever tested. I verified this statement on my own chronograph. Using AA#9, the supersonic 124 grain bullet pulled off these stats from a Glock 35:
average velocity: 1400 fps
extreme spread: only 13 fps (wow)
standard deviation: 5 (wow, wow, wow)!

Let's see a full powered straight walled cartridge pull off these kind of stats; not!

Also, you have to remember that all the straight walled guys/guyettes feel threatened. For most of this century, the biggest bullet provided the best stopping power; that meant using straight walled cases by force. Now that bullet technology has improved so much, the 357 SIG bottlenecked case can push a small 9mm bullet and give the big boys a run for their money and even excel, based on the load and tactical requirement.


cheers

[This message has been edited by petej88 (edited May 03, 2000).]
 
I'm hearing a lot of good things about the .357SIG (which is why I was thinking about getting it) but I'm also getting e-mails like this ... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The 357Sig isn't even popular enought to be considered a "Fad". It has a small cult following much like the 44Spec, 41mag, or 10mm.[/quote] :confused:
Also, petej88, since the dealer had some in stock, why did he say things that would discourage me from buying one -- I even told him that I was interested in putting either the 226 or the 229 on lay-away?
:confused: :confused:

[This message has been edited by FUD (edited May 03, 2000).]
 
FUD,

I can't really say why the gun shop guy said what he did since I don't know him. My favorite gun shop treats the 357 SIG the same as yours. I consider their view, their limitation <G> People who only do what the majority do, are the last ones to do new things. You're either a leader or a follower.

True, if one considers something not worthwhile unless it has a major market share, then the 357 SIG is a failure. Instead, we should call Glock and find out which one of their models has sold the most and then buy it. I'm sure it won't be the Glock 31 (a 357 SIG by the way), although that's what the New Mexico State Police are using.

The 357 SIG continues to GAIN ground, unlike the above mentioned short lived 10mm, etc. Several agencies are now using the 357 SIG, including the Secret Service, and more are testing it all the time.

So the above comparison with unsuccesful calibers for agencies is incorrect. By the way the 10mm is probably the best all-around pistol cartridge ever created and the true affionados are buying it now to keep it alive. The .40 is a squib load in comparison, (just kidding) :) Yet, the .40 won because it can be put into small and medium size pistols, unlike the 10 which requires a large frame.

Whether the naysayers admit it or not, the 357 SIG continues to slowly gain ground, not lose it. As more versatile factory rounds come out, it will just increase its worth.

Fud, I added a little tiny bit more info at the bottom of my post above, which gives a couple other significant factors in favor of the 357 SIG.

[This message has been edited by petej88 (edited May 03, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by petej88 (edited May 03, 2000).]
 
Actually, if I owned a gun shop and saw the .357SIG tidal wave coming I would try to move all the .40's I had in stock before "everyone wants a .357SIG" like they recently did the .40.

I'm not saying that the .357SIG will soon make the .40 totally obsolete. I just believe that it will soon be easier to sell a .357SIG than it is a .40. Hey, if I were to go gun shopping tomorrow and they had a .357SIG and a .40 in the gun I was looking for I would definitely go with the .357SIG. I have a feeling that I am not the only one who would.

Add to that the fact that more and more police agencies are adopting and touting the .357SIG and the fact that LOTS of people who don't know enough about ballistics to make their own decision base them on what the cops use. I think the .357SIG is about to catch fire.

So, yes, if I happened to be less than honest and I had a stock of .40s I would most likely unload my .40s on whoever wasn't sure about the .357SIG. I mean, it isn't like he is exactly ripping anyone off. The .40 is a great round, IMHO.

On the other hand, the guy may just be that ignorant!!! :D

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For Sale: SIG P220 - see handgun classified forum.

***************************
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May 20, 2000-From 3pm to 6pm
http://www.wolfcreek-gun.com
***************************

R6...aka...Chris
 
the .357sig performs nothing like the 9mm+P does.

the 9mm+P expands less than a standard pressure 9mm and expands more rappidly

a .357sig penetrates more than most 9mms and yet still opens up pretty fast.

i think the .357sig is the best defense/carry round there is. i use a 9mm for home defense right now but if i had a .357sig i would use that.

if i carried i would definetly have a Glock 32. i actually think the .357sig is a better carry round than the .45 not to mention .40 and 9mm. it will expand the most reliably in the most situations, and it delivers the best amount of penetration for the most situations.

i don't think theres THAT much of a difference between any handgun loads really. the difference between the 9mm, .40, .357sig, .45, and 10mm is much less than everyone thinks. you are not that much better off with any of these loads. its just what you feel most comforatable with. also its very important that you feel confident in your defense/carry gun and ammo. i would feel better carrying .357sig than .45 so therefore its a better idea for me to carry a .357sig. thats just me everyone is different.
 
I bought my Sig 229 when they were first coming out chambered in 357 sig. I endured the tough times when practice ammo was hard to find and expensive, and only Fedral made a JHP. Remmington,Speer,Winchester,Triton,Corbon,and Hornandy all have offerings chambered in this caliber and the prices are dropping as the production goes up. Buy the 357 sig get a forty barrel and enjoy . G.R.
 
passing fad, nah. It has to much to offer to fade away...

chrono results at 66º
Glock 22 frame/31 slide

Winchester USA 125gr FMJ:
avg vel - 1,422 fps
ES - 27 fps
Sd - 10
Hi - 1,439 fps
Lo - 1,412 fps
PF - 178
-------------------------
CorBon 125gr JHP - advertised velocity on box 1,425 fps:
avg vel - 1,470 fps
ES - 31 fps
Sd - 11
Hi - 1,486 fps
Lo - 1,455 fps
PF - 184

Very impressive numbers for a dinky 9mm bullet, huh? In 5yrs, the .357sig will probably rival or surpass the .40sw, IMO. It is by far the best new round to hit the market since the full power 10mm. I believe the only .40sw load that can compare to it is the hot 135gr offerings from CorBon and Triton. YMMV.
 
The 357 sig is my faviorate round. I carry one off duty all the time. In the summer I carry a sig 239 in the winter I carry a glock 31. I have a sig 229 sport that I plan to compete with and I plan on buying the new beretta cougar in 357 sig when it is released. This round is superior to the 40 and 9mm in terms or power and accuracy.
PAT
 
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