The 45acp is easier on the ears and not as obnoxiously snappy with the recoil. I can shoot the 45acp faster and more accurately and all that really matters in the end. The 357mag is a great trail gun. I personally would take a 45lc in a revolver if I had to choose a defensive revolver.
.357 VS .45
- Thread starter Dragger34
- Start date
allaroundhunter
New member
Similar platforms:
Data obtained with my pistols & chrono averages.
45 acp:
Glock 30 (8 + 1 with flush fitting mag) / 36 (6 + 1):
Winchester Ranger T 230 gr. @ 874 fps / 390# KE
357 Sig:
Glock 32 (13 + 1):
Winchester Ranger T 125 gr. @ 1,340 fps / 499# KE
Glock 33 (9 + 1):
Winchester Ranger T 125 gr. @ 1,280 fps / 454# KE
Decisions, decisions...
-Diameter vs KE
-Capacity vs caliber
Which is "better" or "best" ????
Data obtained with my pistols & chrono averages.
45 acp:
Glock 30 (8 + 1 with flush fitting mag) / 36 (6 + 1):
Winchester Ranger T 230 gr. @ 874 fps / 390# KE
357 Sig:
Glock 32 (13 + 1):
Winchester Ranger T 125 gr. @ 1,340 fps / 499# KE
Glock 33 (9 + 1):
Winchester Ranger T 125 gr. @ 1,280 fps / 454# KE
Decisions, decisions...
-Diameter vs KE
-Capacity vs caliber
Which is "better" or "best" ????
Last edited:
SD Handgunner
Inactive
Not sure what I can add to what has already been said but will try and relate some of my personal experiences.
In the course of working I have had to shoot many whitetail deer with whatever duty handgun I was carrying at the time. Early on in my career it was a 4" .357 Magnum Revolver or a 5" Coonan Arms Model B .357 Magnum Semi Auto. Later years I have carried and used both different 9mm and .45 ACP Handguns.
Some of you have talked about Foot Pounds of Energy. Well your typical 125gr. JHP .357 Magnum Loading is cataloged to produce 1450 FPS / 584 FPE. Typical .45 ACP numbers have been cited but one load I have used for years has not. That load is the Remington 185gr. +P JHP which is cataloged to produce 1140 FPS / 534 FPS. In actual chronograph performance it has been my experience that the .357 Magnum 4" Revolver falls a little short of the cataloged performance but the cataloged performance from a 5" .45 ACP is really close to what is actually achieved.
At the onset I mentioned shooting Whitetail Deer at vehicle / deer accidents. For the most part I have used either the Federal 125gr. JHP from a 4" .357 Magnum Revolver or the Remington 185gr. +P JHP from a 4.6" to 5" Semi Auto. While the actual produced energy each cartridge / gun platform produced was very close to the same the results to the animal were very different. In my opinion and from what I have seen going to +P JHP's in the .45 ACP while closely matching the Foot Pound of Energy that the .357 Magnum produces the outcome is far from the same, in favor of the .45 ACP +P.
As to the noise again there is no comparison. Let's face it no matter what ammo is used in either the .357 Magnum utilizes much more powder (in some loadings depending on the powder up to 3 times as much as a .45 ACP) to achieve it's performance and is burning that powder in a smaller diameter barrel (less cubic inches of barrel to burn the powder) so it is naturally going to produce more muzzle blast.
In comparing the .357 Magnum to the .45 ACP in terms of recoil in both a Coonan Arms Model B .357 Magnum Semi Auto and a 1911 .45 ACP Semi Auto, once again the .357 Magnum produces more felt recoil and more muzzle rise. If you look at the formula for calculating free recoil the numbers that go into that formula are Gun Weight, Powder Charge Weight, Bullet Weight and Muzzle Velocity.
In the end I guess I am sort of old school and much prefer the good ole .45 ACP in it's many different power levels that are achievable these days.
Larry
In the course of working I have had to shoot many whitetail deer with whatever duty handgun I was carrying at the time. Early on in my career it was a 4" .357 Magnum Revolver or a 5" Coonan Arms Model B .357 Magnum Semi Auto. Later years I have carried and used both different 9mm and .45 ACP Handguns.
Some of you have talked about Foot Pounds of Energy. Well your typical 125gr. JHP .357 Magnum Loading is cataloged to produce 1450 FPS / 584 FPE. Typical .45 ACP numbers have been cited but one load I have used for years has not. That load is the Remington 185gr. +P JHP which is cataloged to produce 1140 FPS / 534 FPS. In actual chronograph performance it has been my experience that the .357 Magnum 4" Revolver falls a little short of the cataloged performance but the cataloged performance from a 5" .45 ACP is really close to what is actually achieved.
At the onset I mentioned shooting Whitetail Deer at vehicle / deer accidents. For the most part I have used either the Federal 125gr. JHP from a 4" .357 Magnum Revolver or the Remington 185gr. +P JHP from a 4.6" to 5" Semi Auto. While the actual produced energy each cartridge / gun platform produced was very close to the same the results to the animal were very different. In my opinion and from what I have seen going to +P JHP's in the .45 ACP while closely matching the Foot Pound of Energy that the .357 Magnum produces the outcome is far from the same, in favor of the .45 ACP +P.
As to the noise again there is no comparison. Let's face it no matter what ammo is used in either the .357 Magnum utilizes much more powder (in some loadings depending on the powder up to 3 times as much as a .45 ACP) to achieve it's performance and is burning that powder in a smaller diameter barrel (less cubic inches of barrel to burn the powder) so it is naturally going to produce more muzzle blast.
In comparing the .357 Magnum to the .45 ACP in terms of recoil in both a Coonan Arms Model B .357 Magnum Semi Auto and a 1911 .45 ACP Semi Auto, once again the .357 Magnum produces more felt recoil and more muzzle rise. If you look at the formula for calculating free recoil the numbers that go into that formula are Gun Weight, Powder Charge Weight, Bullet Weight and Muzzle Velocity.
In the end I guess I am sort of old school and much prefer the good ole .45 ACP in it's many different power levels that are achievable these days.
Larry
Super Sneaky Steve
New member
.357 Magnum wins!
So we'd have to compare .45acp to .357 sig, unless, you're talking about firing .45acp from a revolver in which case you compare it with .357 mag.
Either way. For self defense either cartridge will work equally well, with good loads. If you hit the target in a vital spot, both will kill just as quickly. If you hit someone with either, in a non vital area, both will do about the same thing, they're going to poke holes. Depending on expansion and the bullet used, the hole you poke may be slightly bigger with one, but not enough to matter.
The .357 sig has potential for a higher magazine capacity in the same sized gun.
.45acp due to it being inherently subsonic, will work better with a suppressor, if you ever plan on using one.
I'd say whichever caliber you shoot better, and whichever one you can get more ammo for, to practice with. Pretty much all pistol calibers 9mm an 'up' will do the same thing on a human target. There isn't really any need for 'more power' unless you're hunting some sort of big game that needs heavier, higher sectional density bullets to punch through thick bones and hides. For this reason it is wisest to pick the caliber/cartridge which you can handle best, have faster follow up shots, and larger magazine capacity.
I think the .45 ACP is one of the nicest shooting cartridges out there. Recoil is easy and it launches big bullets. I have no beef with the 357 Sig (or .357 Mag for that matter), but I usually prefer bigger bullets.
There is no doubt the 357 Sig and Magnum both are very impressive, but then again the .45 ain't no slouch. I like that you can fire .45 Super from a .45 ACP, and you can handload it (.45 Super) to 460 Rowland levels if you have the right platform.
My G21 with KKM barrel will hurl 250-300gr bullets with over 900 ft-lbs of energy, but that's not something I'd carry "socially", that's more of a hunting setup. Shoot .45 ACP's through the same setup feels like shooting a .22!
There is no doubt the 357 Sig and Magnum both are very impressive, but then again the .45 ain't no slouch. I like that you can fire .45 Super from a .45 ACP, and you can handload it (.45 Super) to 460 Rowland levels if you have the right platform.
My G21 with KKM barrel will hurl 250-300gr bullets with over 900 ft-lbs of energy, but that's not something I'd carry "socially", that's more of a hunting setup. Shoot .45 ACP's through the same setup feels like shooting a .22!
L_Killkenny
New member
My first centerfire was a .45acp. Never gave a thought or cared hoot about it's recoil. Fast forward to getting my first .357M. Rumor about "worse, snappier recoil than a.44" etc. had me closin my eyes and turning my head when I touched off my first round. What a joke, it's a ***** cat. Not really comparable to the .45 due to different platforms but not what I'd call worse by any means.
Fast forward and I've shot lot's of guns in lot's of cartridges in many platforms. While none have been what might be coined a "big boomer" I've never found all that much difference in felt recoil between the common SD cartridges. Difference? Yes. Not enough to give it a lick of thought though.
Fast forward and I've shot lot's of guns in lot's of cartridges in many platforms. While none have been what might be coined a "big boomer" I've never found all that much difference in felt recoil between the common SD cartridges. Difference? Yes. Not enough to give it a lick of thought though.
This is fine, as a comparison between the .45acp and .357 Sig. It is NOT a comparison between the .45acp and the .357 Magnum.
The .357 Magnum isn't a *****cat, its more like a wildcat, that has been fixed. With the exception of a couple of loads from the specialty makers, the .357 Magnum isn't what it once was. Neutered. Toned down. Lightened. Made manageable, etc. Pick what terms you want, but acknowledge that the mighty .357 of yesteryear only exists today in the hottest handloads, and a the previously mentioned boutique loadings.
Original .357 mag ballistics are 158gr @1550fps from and 8 3/8" revolver barrel. And as far as I can determine, the original ammo from the S&W Registered Magnum delivered pretty close to the claims. You won't, however, find ammo loaded like that on the shelf at Walmart, or for that matter, most sporting good stores. With a couple of possible exceptions (which I can't personally vouch for) ammo of that power level comes only from your handloading bench these days. And not very much of that. Simply because of the fact that the majority of guns chambered in .357 Magnum these days simply will not take it.
Because the majority of .357s today are NOT large frame revolvers. Numerically there are lots more medium frame, and small frame .357s than the big ones. The hot stuff you can shoot out of a S&W N frame (or for that matter a Ruger new model Blackhawk) that is a sharp bark and a swift kick, and functions normally is much worse feeling out of a K frame gun, and you will need a small hammer to get the fired cases out of the cylinder. And I would not ever consider shooting them in one of the J frame snubnose size guns, no matter who makes or how they rate it.
But current factory ammo will shoot in all, and cases will eject normally. Don't get me wrong, I'm not inferring in the least that current factory .357 is a slouch or a wimp, far from it. But its not the round that started and built the .357's reputation, for decades.
What you shoot it out of matters a lot. Handguns optimized for carry and defensive use are not optimized for full magnum power. Period. There's no free lunch. And current standard magnum power loads are nothing to be sneered at or disrespected, especially in certain platform.
A few years back, an avid shooter friend of mine nearly ended his ability to enjoy handgunning. He spent a summer firing a couple thousand (mostly factory) .357 loads through several small frame guns. He developed nerve damage in his arms from it. He's still avid, but can't be the shooter he once was, maybe never again. Today, he can manage about a box of 9mm, and then he's done for the day. There is hope for eventual improvement. His case was a case of too much too close together, like an athlete injuring themselves from over training, not because the gun and ammo are injurious when used in the expected fashion.
And the expected, and intended manner to shoot .357 in medium and small size guns is in small amounts, for practice, and to carry for use when needed. All other shooting should be done with lighter loads (.38Spl level).
Doing that, the guns will last, and so will you.
If you want to be able to shoot .357 Magnum whenever you desire, for that, you use a large frame gun. And I am referring to current factory ammo here, too.
You can do otherwise, a some people do. I just want to make the point that if you do, your results might not be what your goal was when you started.
We focus ALOT on defensive shooting, and the best tools for it, but the world of handguns does not begin, or end there for the real enthusiast.
Comparing the .357 and the .45auto in defensive class "platforms" is the only place where the two rounds really overlap in use.
The .45 is pretty much at its peak for this, while the .357 (and the guns) best suited for defense/duty use are far below full peak .357 performance.
Its not an apples to apples comparison, even when you put them in exactly the same box. I've got a Contender with .357 barrel, and a barrel that will shoot .45acp. There is, however a 4 inch difference in the length, but that's as close to the same box as I can get, in my personal collection. Also have a Coonan, which is close to, but still bigger and heaver than a 1911A1.
I've also had a Desert Eagle in .357, and that's a "platform", one that does turn the .357 into a mild puttytat for recoil. The roar, on the other hand is something else.
(early DE, nominal 6" barrel, polygonal rifling, heavy load 125gr JHP, 1720fps, clocked actual. No issues with function, or accuracy.
)Of course, the DE weighs about what TWO 1911s do....does hold 9+1 though,
Same ammo, 6" S&W model 28, 1670fps, cases eject normally. Same ammo in 6" S&W Model 19, only two shots (shooter somehow got the gun to double
) 1620fps. Fired cases could not be ejected by hand, had to be tapped loose. Use of that ammo in that gun suspended, permanently. (and no, I'm not going to tell what the load was, for obvious reasons.I wouldn't be so sure about that. Most good .45 JHP loadings meet the FBI standard by penetrating at least 12" (and some considerably more) in bare ballistic gelatin. This standard is actually overly deep to compensate for a shot that must be taken through an extremity, at an oblique angle, or on an exceptionally large individual. However, in a straight-on frontal shot to the upper chest of a small-to-medium sized person, there is a fairly good chance that a bullet which penetrates 12" of ballistic gel will pass completely through.
Also, as to intermediate barriers, the FBI protocol tests against several including wall board, plywood, glass, and steel. In the data available from both Winchester and ATK (owner of Federal and Speer), a .45 ACP will penetrate those barriers quite handily.
http://le.atk.com/wound_ballistics/load_comparison/load_comparison.aspx
http://winchesterle.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/pdf/Handgun%20Bullet%20Barrier%20Testing%20Protocol.pdf
It would all about the platform.
Both have excellent SD terminal ballistics. 45 has a slight advantage as 357 relies on expansion to stop, where 45 hardball or unexpanded JHP would still be effective most of the time.
To me, 357 mag is at it's best in a S&W 13 DAO 4". 45 Auto is best in a 1911 5". I think those platforms are very comparable, but the 1911 would carry better IWB and it reloads better. I think the revolver would be more accurate in my hands, but that would be close.
I would say a virtual tie to me. The revolver would be cheaper by far..
Both have excellent SD terminal ballistics. 45 has a slight advantage as 357 relies on expansion to stop, where 45 hardball or unexpanded JHP would still be effective most of the time.
To me, 357 mag is at it's best in a S&W 13 DAO 4". 45 Auto is best in a 1911 5". I think those platforms are very comparable, but the 1911 would carry better IWB and it reloads better. I think the revolver would be more accurate in my hands, but that would be close.
I would say a virtual tie to me. The revolver would be cheaper by far..
OkieCruffler
New member
I swap my carry gun between a compact .45 and a .357 snubby both loaded hot. I don't find either to be terribly painful. The recoil from the 357 is definitely stouter and the blast (yes I've fired it in doors with no ear protection) is WAY more severe. I don't feel undergunned with either. Ain't no flies on either of them.
jersurf101
New member
The .357 would have to get my vote. I keep thinking of the same platform and I would rather have the .357 either way(auto pistol or revolver). I love my .45 but over my .357? I would much rather have my revolver. The .45 punches the great big hole but the .357 has a lot of energy behind it.
The .357 magnum revolver makes a lot of grown men cry. A lot of grown men will shoot a couple rounds of full power 357 rounds and hand the revolver back to you. They'll shake their head and say that's not for me. Most men shoot 38+P out of their 357 magnum handguns. Me? I love the blast, the fire and recoil of the 357 mag.
A 45 caliber pistol might come very close in effectiveness to a 357 mag, but for raw power, the 357 rules.
A 45 caliber pistol might come very close in effectiveness to a 357 mag, but for raw power, the 357 rules.
L_Killkenny
New member
I've never seen a grown man cry from shooting a .357, never had a grown man fire 2 shots and say that it wasn't for them and the only times I see someone using .38sp wholesale in their .357 is for 1)cost or 2)in their ultra-light snub. The .357 is indeed neutered from it's original glory (albeit not in many handloads) but I've never seen or heard of someone that is in fact comfortable shooting the .45acp have any issues what so ever with the .357 in comparable size/weight guns.