.357 sig
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The wound channels seen in ballistics gel do not translate to the human body, insofar as handgun calibers go.
I have seen a fair number of handgun gunshot wounds up close and personal either in the emergency ward or operating room. Handgun calibers may create a temporary wound channel in human soft tissue, but this does not result in any permanent tissue injury. Human soft tissue, unlike ballistic gelatin, has elastin fibers and the displaced tissue simply recoils back into place without significant injury.
In all of the handgun gunshot wounds I have seen you can basically draw a line between the entrance wound and the exit wound, or between the entrance and where the projectile is located on Xray or CT scan, and the tissue injury is going to be limited to a channel along that line, no greater in diameter than that of the expanded projectile. The rare exceptions are when a projectile hits bone, but even then, the projectile is usually found either lodged in the bone, or very close to it.
High velocity rifle wounds with projectile velocities in excess of 2000fps can be different. There I have seen injuries that are somewhat remote to the bullet track.
Shotgun wounds are typically far worse than either.
I have seen a fair number of handgun gunshot wounds up close and personal either in the emergency ward or operating room. Handgun calibers may create a temporary wound channel in human soft tissue, but this does not result in any permanent tissue injury. Human soft tissue, unlike ballistic gelatin, has elastin fibers and the displaced tissue simply recoils back into place without significant injury.
In all of the handgun gunshot wounds I have seen you can basically draw a line between the entrance wound and the exit wound, or between the entrance and where the projectile is located on Xray or CT scan, and the tissue injury is going to be limited to a channel along that line, no greater in diameter than that of the expanded projectile. The rare exceptions are when a projectile hits bone, but even then, the projectile is usually found either lodged in the bone, or very close to it.
High velocity rifle wounds with projectile velocities in excess of 2000fps can be different. There I have seen injuries that are somewhat remote to the bullet track.
Shotgun wounds are typically far worse than either.
Unfortunately, that simply isn't the case. My hands-on experience with .357 Sig is two magazines of it through a Gen 2 Glock 23 with a Lone Wolf barrel. I enjoyed it. And though I may even have a reputation for goofing around with odd stuff (big .327 Federal fan and today at the bench working with a genuine wildcat whose heyday was 1960s/70s), I have never loaded any .357 Sig in more than two decades at the load bench.
I only dropped a post because the math doesn't add up.
SAME pressure, same bullet... same powder? But larger case capacity and heavier powder charge? At the same pressure -- if all else is equal, . No ., the same velocity does not result.
Interesting that it was Coy Getman that said that. I've gotten fine technical info from him in the past. I'm quite certain that he is a paid professional with a company to represent -- I am no more than an enthusiastic hobbyist. I wouldn't even pretend to be "better" at this stuff than he is. At the end of the equation however... it doesn't add up.
I don't mean or intend to be argumentative about it and I have no personal stake. And frankly, when one of "US" gets info direct from the Pros and shares it, I am very appreciative of that gesture. I just can't see how he gave the correct answer in this instance.
Deaf Smith
New member
That is cause it's no.. big.. deal. The peening stops after a while and the gun functions fine.
If you want, get a heavier recoil spring.
Deaf
I dont know either, just passing on what someone with better knowledge of things related to me. I figured Id ask, since I didnt know, and wanted some clarification.
Roughly at what point specifically does the peening stop? I dont remember the exact count, but I had at least a couple of thousand 357SIG's through it, before I switched it over to 9mm. It was showing no sign of stopping with the 357SIG being shot out of it. The couple of .40's I saw with it, didnt show the same level of peening either.
Function was never an issue, peening or not. The gun ran fine. Just didnt like the way it was beating itself up.
I solved the problem another way, I got rid of the 31. Got rid of my SIG's in the caliber around the same time too.
Deaf Smith
New member
The peening is a strictly cosmetic blemish that is caused by the Locking Block contacting the slide. The peening is shown in PTOOMA's The Complete Reference Guide.(P49) The peening progresses to a certain point and then goes no further. This peening DOES NOT affect the operation of the Glock Pistol unless something is terribly out of tolerance.
Glock has changed the Locking Block, at some point, in the Generation 3 pistols. The newer blocks have roughly 100% greater bearing surface area compared to the earlier blocks. The longer and wider bearing surfaces may provide for less peening of the slide.
But expect it to stop after a few thousand rounds of full powered loads.
BTW, even Glock 17s have been known to exhibit SOME peening.
More on the subject:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138677
and
https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=5&f=13&t=85768
Deaf
Glock has changed the Locking Block, at some point, in the Generation 3 pistols. The newer blocks have roughly 100% greater bearing surface area compared to the earlier blocks. The longer and wider bearing surfaces may provide for less peening of the slide.
But expect it to stop after a few thousand rounds of full powered loads.
BTW, even Glock 17s have been known to exhibit SOME peening.
More on the subject:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138677
and
https://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=5&f=13&t=85768
Deaf
Deaf Smith
New member
Launching 180 gr bullets ain't what the .357 Sig was invented for.
Deaf
Deaf
Deaf Smith
New member
Oh, it is a .357 magnum. Just its only a 125 gr load .357 magnum. Matches it very well.
Deaf
125gr .357 from a 4" revolver is what it matches best, and what it was made to do.
Now, I'm curious, anyone out there have a longer (6") barrel .357 Sig? (and a chronograph) I'm curious what the 125gr Sig does out of a 6" or longer barrel, and how that compares to the 125gr .357 Mag in longer barrels.
I know what the .357 Mag does in longer barrels, I suspect it leaves the Sig behind in terms of MV, but it would be nice to see proof, one way, or the other.
Deaf Smith
New member
I have a Glock 35 with Storm Lake .357 Sig barrel (5.33 inches) and will try to chronograph some ammo this weekend. Also note a Glock 35 is the same size as a 1911 .45 5 inch GI.
But..
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357sig.html
Cor Bon Cor Bon DPX
115 gr.JHP 125 gr. JHP 125 gr. JHP
--------------- ---------------- ----------------
Infinity 6" barrel 1618 1550 1366
Steyr M357 4" barrel 1472 1410 1273
But do note a 5 inch bbl gets 1578 1537 1402
http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=126_192&product_id=79
Caliber : .357 Sig Bullet : 125gr. Bonded Defense® JHP
3.5" barrel - 1415fps
4.5" barrel - 1525fps
And
http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=126_192&product_id=613
Caliber : .357 Sig Bullet : 115gr. Bonded Defense® JHP
3.5" barrel - 1494fps
4.0" barrel - 1550fps
4.5" barrel - 1612fps <---- wow... now what about a 5.33 inch barrel??
http://www.glocktalk.com/threads/underwood-357-sig-125gr-at-1511-fps.1447887/
Underwood 357 Sig 125gr. Gold Dot ammo at 1511 fps out of a Glock 32!!
And the best...
http://www.stoppingpower.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8013&SearchTerms=.357+Sig
Double Tap 125gr. Gold Dot Hollowpoint, .357 Sig, lot number 00206, dated 1/5/2005
Glock 35 (Jarvis)
Average =1594 <----- yep, just about 1600 fps!
High = 1622
Low = 1586
ES = 36
SD = 14
So I think 1600 fps for a 125 gr bullet is quite possible in factory ammo. I'll try but all I have is Gold Dots... and DT ammo ain't cheap!
Deaf
Deaf Smith
New member
No cause the .357 Sig was expressly designed to match the .357 magnum 125 grain load that works so well on the street. It matches the F-250 in one area that the F-150 can't match at all.
The Sig is a COMBAT round and not for hunting. The .357 magnum was made as a HUNTING round and adapted for COMBAT (hence the 8 inch barrels they always used for testing.)
At the 125 grain level or less (like 90 grain slugs), the Sig most certainly can match the .357 magnum. Heavier bullets the .357 magnum does better.
If you want true .357 magnum power for COMBAT, and a 15 shot gun, the .357 Sig is the way to go. If you want to hunt big game, the .357 magnum is the way to go.
Deaf
Deaf Smith
New member
It's not more popular cause bean counters figured out the ammo cost more, the guns wear out quicker, and the weapons kick more and are louder. Thus the 9mm , from an economic standpoint for large agencies, is the bean counters choice.
But you and I are not chained by that kind of thinking. We can afford a few bucks more to practice, afford guns that 'only' last 50,000 rounds of full powered ammo, and handle a gun that kicks a bit more, as long as the gun/bullet combination does it's part.
Deaf
But you and I are not chained by that kind of thinking. We can afford a few bucks more to practice, afford guns that 'only' last 50,000 rounds of full powered ammo, and handle a gun that kicks a bit more, as long as the gun/bullet combination does it's part.
Deaf
I never really found the 357SIG's to have recoil any worse than warm 9mm. They are a bit louder, but recoil isnt at all bad, and still less than .45acp, which isnt bad either. Of all of them, I still find the .40's to be the snappiest to shoot.
As far as cost goes, it used to be, 357SIG and .40 were pretty much the exact same price. I was paying $250 a case for both right before things went crazy. Ended up selling my unopened cases of 357SIG off for around $450 a case, and at the time, they were heading into the upper $500's. I know things came back down some, but it still looks like 357SIG is about $100+ a case more than .40.
When I first got into it, it wasnt worth the bother to reload for, as it was only costing me a buck more a box to buy by the case. Once the prices started going up, that changed, and I loaded a lot more for it.
Even then though, 357SIG isnt the most economical to reload for, as the bullets are mostly round specific, and usually cost a bit more, and the powder charge is almost three times what I use with 9mm. Bullets were a bit of a challenge to find at times, as there are less choices and they arent as readily available.
As far as cost goes, it used to be, 357SIG and .40 were pretty much the exact same price. I was paying $250 a case for both right before things went crazy. Ended up selling my unopened cases of 357SIG off for around $450 a case, and at the time, they were heading into the upper $500's. I know things came back down some, but it still looks like 357SIG is about $100+ a case more than .40.
When I first got into it, it wasnt worth the bother to reload for, as it was only costing me a buck more a box to buy by the case. Once the prices started going up, that changed, and I loaded a lot more for it.
Even then though, 357SIG isnt the most economical to reload for, as the bullets are mostly round specific, and usually cost a bit more, and the powder charge is almost three times what I use with 9mm. Bullets were a bit of a challenge to find at times, as there are less choices and they arent as readily available.
