.357 Sig Question
- Thread starter Roamin_Wade
- Start date
The part I dont get is, if +P+ 9mm is a 40,000psi round (Speer seems to consider it that anyway), like 357SIG and close with the 40S&W, why doesnt my 17 exhibit the same peening problem the 357 and 40 Glocks do? All used the same RSA. Different pressure curves maybe?
I had a couple of P226's and 229's as well, in 357SIG with .40 barrels for each. Never found them to be a problem to shoot well with, or any harder or easier to do so quickly, than anything else.
Wear wise, the rails showed some chipping or flaking, but nothing any worse than my .45 or 9mm SIGs.
Are we talking the same bullet weights here? These comparisons often start to run off into "mixed fruit" when people want to prove their choice is better.
If both are maxed at 40,000 psi, and using bullets of the same weight, how do you get these 500 fps differences in velocity?
Jello is simply the baseline for comparison and a standard. Not that it really matters, as pistol calibers suck as stoppers, and regardless what you have, the "rule" is still always the same. You shoot the target to the ground. To do otherwise, and believe you have some sort of magic bullet in the gun, is foolish.
How much do you shoot it?
There is no maximum case pressure standard for +P+ ammunition. All you know for sure is that it is loaded to higher pressure than +P.
The case volume of the 357 SIG is significantly greater than that of the 9x19 mm case. If both are loaded to the same maximum case pressure, the 357 SIG case will still contain more powder. More propellant, more velocity.
Well, Speer at least has a standard for it, and Im sure the other major makers that load +P+ do as well. SAAMI dosent.
More propellant doesnt always mean more velocity, just look at any reloading manual.
With 357SIG, you can get similar velocities with less powder, but thats really something you dont want to do, as the neck tension thing starts to come into play.
Im assuming that some of the boutique loaders are finding powders that allow them to stay within the pressure specs, but wring some more velocity out of the 357SIG, but they are basically limited at that point, just like 9mm +P+ is (40,000psi seems to be that point), and anything beyond, is going to be overpressure. The difference really isnt that dramatic or making the 357SIG some sort of magically performing caliber. "On paper", its the winner. No doubt.
Look, if you like it, great, I was in the same place about 10 years ago. Then I had an epiphany. I dont feel Ive lost a thing by switching to 9mm (just like I didnt lose a thing by going 357SIG from .45acp), and if anything, Im way ahead, just because of ammo/components costs and practice. I shoot at the very least, 300 rounds of 9mm per week, and often more than that. My reloads run around $6-$6.50 a box. Last I was loading 357SIG, it was around $12 a box. You do the math.
Cosmodragoon
New member
The biggest problem facing .357 Sig was that it wasn't 9mm or .45 acp and it followed an unusually successful third standard entering the marketplace (.40 S&W). The marketplace is crowded, the standards remain fairly strong, and ammo cost is affected by volume. The shooting public, who already has guns in standard calibers, sees this and tends to be shy about investing in new calibers. (Plus, there is always a sturdy wall of haters and naysayers in the way.) Introducing new handgun cartridges is tough and making them common is even tougher.
I think .40 S&W only broke through due to a perfect storm of factors which lead to widespread LE usage. With that changing, it looks like 9mm will remain the active market champion. I don't expect .40 to go away anytime soon but it's few decades of widespread use only put so many handguns into circulation. Trusty ol' 9mm has been driving the semi-auto market for something like a century.
I think .40 S&W only broke through due to a perfect storm of factors which lead to widespread LE usage. With that changing, it looks like 9mm will remain the active market champion. I don't expect .40 to go away anytime soon but it's few decades of widespread use only put so many handguns into circulation. Trusty ol' 9mm has been driving the semi-auto market for something like a century.
disseminator
New member
While I take no issue with your overall statement, it's not really true that 9mm has ruled for a century. 9mm really came into wider use with the transition from revolvers to semi-autos as the primary police and self defensive weapon of choice.
The 45 ACP, 357 Magnum, and especially the 38 Special ruled the day before the Semi-auto took the crown and with it ushered in the age of the 9mm.
Oh, and I love the 357 SIG.
True statement but it's true only for the U.S. In the U.S. no manufacturer made a gun in 9mm till 1948 and that was when Colt introduced the Commander. This was followed a few years later by S&W which chamber the M39 in 9mm as it's first outing producing a semi in a service caliber for military and police work.
But in Europe, and a good portion of the rest of the world, excepting the Eastern bloc, the 9mm had come to dominate military handguns and sub machine gun rounds, before the beginning of the Second World War. There was no widespread legacy of revolver use in law enforcement there. Though most law enforcement rounds were less powerful than the 9mm the semi auto pistol dominated in Europe long before the U.S.
tipoc
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Cosmodragoon
New member
I might have been a bit early on my 9mm assumption here in the States. Still though, it's been at or near the top for a very long time and recent changes suggest that it will stay there for quite a while.
Another funny thing about Europe is the popularity of .32 acp (7.65) over the years. It was still seeing police issue in places up through the 1980s!
Another funny thing about Europe is the popularity of .32 acp (7.65) over the years. It was still seeing police issue in places up through the 1980s!
Model12Win
Moderator
Those departments using it report devastating stopping power against assailants. It also has a peerless rep for use against dangerous canines.
It is, IMHO, tremendously better than any 9mm load and kicks the .40's booty as well. Not until you get up into the "Big 10" 10mm AUTO round is their a match in a handheld semi-auto double-stack pistol. It is a titanically potent and effective lawman's pistol.
It is, IMHO, tremendously better than any 9mm load and kicks the .40's booty as well. Not until you get up into the "Big 10" 10mm AUTO round is their a match in a handheld semi-auto double-stack pistol. It is a titanically potent and effective lawman's pistol.
Bottom Gun
New member
I wonder how many "experts" posting negative comments about the .357 Sig have actually used one?
Bottom Gun
New member
I confess to being emotional about it because I love the .357 Sig cartridge. I take it with me almost everywhere I go, I load special ammo for it and I even sleep with it.
It’s the real thing this time.
It’s the real thing this time.
Cosmodragoon
New member
Back when law enforcement used revolvers, how many carried .357 magnum (or any other magnum) and how many carried .38 special given the choice?
It doesn't matter how good it is or how well it performs if enough other factors are stacked against it. If it's louder, kicks harder, costs more, has less options or accessories or other things you can do with it; or it was released not too long after another hot new round had gained market share and there isn't resounding market faith in the round or consumer faith that it will be worth investing in whatever new caliber... Institutions or individuals might not choose it.
It's a bit like the difference between VHS and Betamax. Betamax offered better quality but good luck finding that new blockbuster down at the rental place...