357 Ring Of Fire Update

D

Davelliott

New member
New videos on Youtube under Dave Elliott 357 Ring Of Fire.
Preliminary tests have breached 1500 fps with 125 gr., and 1385 fps with 147 gr.
Future testing for 125, 140, 158 and 200 gr. LRN to come.
Patent pending.
 
This is like the 460 and the 960...not saami tested yet.
I'll do what I can to get saami to test as soon as I can, but if there are those who don't want to wait...it's coming available just like Mr. Rowland's creations.
I'm not familiar enough with this format to add links...but the information you need to find the videos on youtube are:
Dave Elliott 357 Ring Of Fire.
Thank you.
 
I took interest when I saw you shooting the G29 because I have one. There's a 9x25 barrel available for the G29. The Uw 9x25 125 is rated at 1700 fps so that's probably 1500+ out of the G29.

What good is your 357 ring of fire?
 
All

This cartridge has a plus 3 advantage over the 9x25, and it uses 357 bullets.
This was the first test load for this bullet weight. There is room to improve.
More to come.
Thanks guys.
Dave
 
All

Hey guys!
Thanks for the input.
This cartridge isn't designed to compete with anything other than a 357 magnum and store bought ammo from major manufacturers.
Using loading data from alliant powders for example, Blue Dot shows a max velocity of 1188 with the 158. I've matched that or better, even with the G29.
I'm not that familiar with the 9x25, other than it being something like a 10mm necked down to a 9mm, and getting great velocities out of X length barrels with light bullets.
So how do they do with 147 grainers, 158?
More tests are scheduled this weekend with 125, 140, 158 and 200 GR LRN... the 357 mag load data only shows the 200 LRN going @850 fps for most powders, but I found some data showing @1200fps...but I'm not pushing them over 1000fps because they're lead. Don't want to lead the barrel.
The tests will be done with the G20, to be more fair with others published data. Once I peak, I'll retest with the G29.
Thanks for watchin'.
Dave
 
I don't get why you're trying to develop this cartridge when we have the 357mag as well as the 357sig not to mention 9x25 Dillon?
 
Oysterboy said:
I don't get why you're trying to develop this cartridge when we have the 357mag as well as the 357sig not to mention 9x25 Dillon?
Click to expand...
I don't get why you're so upset about him trying to develop it.
 
To be honest, I don't get it either. I get close to 1470fps out of 124gr JSP WWB 9x23 Winchester factory loads (@$28bx + shipping) from my 1911 and over 1450 from 125gr Silvertips. The cost and hassle of a wildcat just don't come close to be worth that little extra to me. And, if I need more bullet weight, I'll just switch to a .357, 41, or .44mag revolver or get a 460 Rowland kit for one of my 1911s if it has to be an auto.
 
Dave, I was thinking about your project here and realized that you may actually be reinventing the wheel. Or at least trying to reinvigorate a project that was done back in the 90s but never really got the press it should've received or the acceptance. Do some research regarding the 356 TSW cartridge. Exact same dimensions as 9 mm but could push a 140 grain projectile at 357 mag velocities. That seems to be exactly what you're trying to attempt here. If I were you I might look up some load data and case specifications for the 356 TS W cartridge. It might help you a lot in what you're attempting. And be a lot safer.
It might also help you leaps and bounds in the development of your own cartridge
 
All

This cartridge is something I have sought since the late 70's...but the metallurgy, powder chemistry, nor bullet designs were advanced enough to bring this to fruition...a straightwalled semiautomatic 357 equivalent...not a 40 or 10mm necked down cartridge...and versatile enough to use real heavy weight bullets as needed when light 125 grainers fall short.
I brought this to public attention for those who may also want a real 357 high capacity semiauto, and not something less.
I know it won't be for everyone...just like the 60's, some folks preferred the 38, and some preferred the 357 magnum.
I have one...I have two now...I have achieved the goal I set.
Rather than sit on it, I decided to share it...and supplement my retirement some...that's it.
Guess what I did today???
I shot 200 gr. LRN in my 357 Ring Of Fire conversion in excess of 1000 fps in both the Glock 20 and the Glock 29!
I could've pushed higher, but being lead bullets, I was concerned about lead fouling the barrel at higher velocities.
And by the way...wasn't this the original design parameters for the 10mm per Col. Jeff Cooper? 200 grain bullet at 1000 fps minimum?
Yup...broke that goal today. And I can carry 3 more rounds than the 10mm does, at the ready.
So how fast does the 355 Sig, or 9x25 Dillon push a 200 grain bullet...at the expense of those 3 extra rounds?
I did research various cartridges from the past...356 TSW, 38 ACP, 357/45, etc...and I'm trying to exceed the limitations of those earlier attempts to get a 357 rimless pistol cartridge with modern powders and such...and still have the high capacity of a 9mm.
Thanks guys!
 
This cartridge isn't designed to compete with anything other than a 357 magnum and store bought ammo from major manufacturers.
Click to expand...
I shot 200 gr. LRN in my 357 Ring Of Fire conversion in excess of 1000 fps...
Click to expand...
Which major manufacturer factory loading does this load duplicate/compete with?
...not saami tested yet.
I'll do what I can to get saami to test as soon as I can...
Click to expand...
The question wasn't about SAAMI testing, the question was what pressure is the cartridge running? It's not necessary to have the SAAMI organization standardize the cartridge before determining the operating pressure of the cartridge. Pressure measurement equipment employs a test barrel and a piezoelectric sensor.
So how fast does the 355 Sig, or 9x25 Dillon push a 200 grain bullet...
Click to expand...
Is there a lot of demand for 200gr bullet loadings in .357Mag? If so, all the major manufacturer's are missing out. The only 200gr loadings I can find are by the various boutique manufacturers and seem to run 1150fps to 1350fps in a 4" revolver barrel.
...it uses 357 bullets.
Click to expand...
Is using .357 bullets an advantage in an autopistol? I would think that the reverse was true.

As far as the size difference, the NOMINAL difference between 9mm and .357Mag is about a half a percentage point difference in diameter and about 1% difference in frontal area. However, the actual variance in 9mm bullets and .357Mag bullets means that in practice, one might actually end up with 0.356" diameter bullets in both 9mm and .357Mag bullets. In other words, the difference might be non-existent unless one is careful to choose bullets that are nominal diameter in both calibers.
 
Now I get what you're doing. I wish you luck with that but I think you're pushing it too far.

There's a reason we have 357sig and 9x25dillon for autos. They are feasible and safer.
 
9mm bullets = .355
.357 bullets = .356
Yup I can see how everyone is going to go gaga over .001"

9x23, 9x25, 9mm magnum, .460 Roland, 10mm magnum.... All niche cartridges. Always have been and always will. What you're claiming isn't new and isn't in demand. At best it will just be another niche cartridege.

From everything I've read of this and last years post it sounds like you're using .357 bullets in a 9x25 case and probably a healthy dose of Blue Dot. Extra velocity comes with a price. Its called excessive pressure. It may not have happened yet but keep blasting away and one day you'll be typing with one hand.
 
All

Good morning,
There are some who are interested in my progress, and I promised to keep them informed, so I have.
Progress proceeds to bring my concepts to fruition.
Thank you for your concerns and input.
Dave
 
While I find the experimentation interesting I find the lack of disclosure on the case dimensions and pressure levels rather odd. The biggest problem I see is that no one will be interested in the round. If you've been following law endorcement trends over the last couple years you'd realize that they have been shifting back towards 9mm because the power is sufficient for their needs and the recoil of larger rounds is too much for many officers who don't shoot regularly. There are many options out there already and there are cartridges covering the full spectrum from mild to wild.

How many rounds have you put through your guns at this point? I'm sure the Glocks will last for a while at proof load levels but once the round count gets into the 1,000's you will see problems.
 
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