.357 Magnum, 110 grain JHP, OK defense round?

sp101 works fer me

I carry rem. 125g bjhp's in my Ruger sp; I'm sure that it will ruin any transients day; at least long enuff for me to call the law:eek:
 
I say get some gold dots in .357. The short-barrel version is low flash and recoil. All results of this bullet I have seen have been very positive. They expand fully every time.

~Ichiro
 
I admit, any bullet weight in .357 is gonna hurt....but in that caliber I suggest 145gr silvertips or 158gr in Gold Dot or Hydra-Shok. I have experimented with every bullet weight from 110gr to 180gr in .357 out of snubbies, and the better performers are the heavier ones. 110gr and 125gr have alot of flash and bang, showed bullet pull (jumping the crimp) in just about every airweight snubby I've tried them in, and are usually not as accurate.

The 145gr silvertips do really well accuracy-wise, but I did notice a little (not alot) of bullet pull out of those (none in my 2.25" SP101, but a friends airweight had a few) The Federal 158gr Hydra-Shok load is the most accurate one in my SP101 compared to all others I've tried, and they are crimped NICELY (no bullet pull in any snubby I've ever fired them out of, including airweights)

I'm not sure what revolver make/model you're using, so the accuracy/bullet pull may not be an issue for you. I suggest you try all different weights to see what works best in your particular revolver.


In my 2.25" Ruger SP101 .357 I use these:

Federal 158gr Hydra-Shoks
p357hs14et.jpg
 
Gee I pick 115g for my 9mm for it lower penetration properties (compared to 147gr), they make .357 that light. Is that a target round, or does the package say it as a self defense round?
 
I've never understood why people look for rounds with low-penetration in mind. Any round that is designed as a SD load is easily going to pentrate drywall and windows. Even if a 115gr. 9mm load penetrates less than a 147gr. load it will easily penetrate through drywall and windows almost unobstructed with enough energy to cause serious harm to another individual. A decent 147gr. JHP is not going to over-penetrate the intended target. If you're opponent is armed and aiming his gun at you you will most likely have to shoot through one of his arms to reach vitals. The 115gr. JHP loads have a high probability of not reaching them compared to a 124gr or 147gr. JHP load. By selecting a lower penetrating round for self defense all you are doing is putting yourself at a disadvantage.

All JHPs regardless of bullet weight can fail to expand and over-penetrate. The 9mm or 357 in common self defense loads is not typically known as an over-penetrator with JHPs. The 158gr. 357 loads are coming close to the over-penetration range as they typically penetrate no less than 16". If you are looking for a lower recoil round with less flash, look at the 125gr. Rem GS or a +p 38 spl load. 110gr. is simply too light for SD purposes. The WWB 110gr. JHP isn't even a premium SD load, which makes it an even worse choice. It is a pretty nice varmint load though. I personally would never choose a bullet with a SD below a .140 for self defense purposes and usually prefer a bullet with a SD of at least .150-.160 for defensive use against two legged threats. That basicaly means 124-125gr. bullets as minimum for .35 cal bullets. 155gr. as a minimum for .40 cal and 200gr. as a minimum for .45 cal. All of these bullets will provide adequate penetration for SD purposes.
 
I want to avoid over penetration..Hitting the bad guy and having the bullet exit at with enough power to keep traveling and cause more damage behind the BG. You shoot the BG in the com and the bullet keeps going thru walls,innocent people, etc. Overpenetration is a problem with the 9mm 147g round.
 
Overpenetration is a problem with the 9mm 147g round.
Click to expand...

Which 147gr. load has an over-penetration problem? Any decent 147gr. JHP load is going to expand and stay in the BG. They typically penetrate 13-14". That is not over-penetration. The original 147gr. JHP load from Winchester had a problem with over-penetration but that was about 15-20yrs ago. Things have changed and most ammo manufacturers are focusing on 124-147gr. loads for premium self defense loads. Any round can fail to expand and over-penetrate no matter what the bullet weight. In actual gunfights 80% of shots fired miss their target completely so I think the concern of over-penetration is not significant. A 115gr. load will pass through drywall and windows rather easily if it misses its target. The only round that is guaranteed not to over-penetrate a human target are the mag-safe and glaser safety slugs.
 
I carry a 93gr 9x19mm round and it penetrates only 2cm (0.78") less in clay then a 200gr .45+P with 512ft/# and 996ft/sec. In the wetpack my light 93gr 9x19mm outpenetrated the 200gr .45 by faaaar(check it out here and also click on the data sheed linked there)


Which 147gr. load has an over-penetration problem? Any decent 147gr. JHP load is going to expand and stay in the BG. They typically penetrate 13-14". That is not over-penetration.
Click to expand...
As far as I rememeber, the avarage person has a 9" chest basically filled with air...
 
As far as I rememeber, the avarage person has a 9" chest basically filled with air...
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Are you serious? The human body or torso is filled with bone, dense tissue and really not very much air at all. It is said that human tissue contains about 70% water. Keep in mind that any time your attacker is point a gun at you he will have his arms guarding his chest naturally. The angle in which the arm is pointed makes it so you have to penetrate about 6" of the BGs arm before even entering the torso at all. It is not very likely that a BG is just going stand right in front of you and offer you a perfect frontal shot. It does happen but it doesn't always. Also consider that the force required to penetrate or exit skin is said to be 4" of ballistic gelatin.

Which 93gr. 9mm are you using? Is it a HP or a FMJ? What was the test medium? Wet-pack if that is what you used has been shown to be very unreliable to gather consistent results. I wouldn't be concerned about penetration with 9mm FMJ. It has proven to penetrate quite well and if I had to use FMJ for SD I would choose a light and fast bullet as it would be more likely to fragment and create secondary projectiles vs a nice neat little hole that closes up about 30% of the original bullet size. HPs are another story, a light weight bullet just doesn't penetrate reliably enough to be counted on for SD. If you're attacked by a 300lb guy like Trooper Coates was, you're going to want all the penetration you can get. Think about it, there are some humans that weigh as much as a large American Black Bear. Would you shoot a large Black Bear with a 115gr. 9mm load?
 
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There is some confusion as to what the trooper actually shot his 300 lb bad guy w: .38 Special +P Silvertip (10 inches penetration) or a 357 Mag Silvertip (16 inches)...

How good the 110 357 Mag is, and how deep is deep enough/too deep depends on who you ask.

It's as good/bad as the 115 +P/+P+ loads were/are. Some (ISP, Secret Service, BP, USMS) think those were/are great, some (FBI) think they are terrible...

The 110/357 Mag was used very effectively by plenty of folks for years. Did it fail from time to time? Sure. What hasn't? I know of plenty of failures w 147/9s, 180/40s and 230/45 JHPs that penetrate a lot deeper.

Just about everybody uses loads that penetrate deeper now, but I'm not so sure they are really "stopping" any better more often than the old stuff. A kid here took 14 hits of deep penetrating 40 ammo. Was hit in the lungs, liver, spleen, and intestines. Wrestled the officer to the ground and fought the medics all the way to the ER. He survived, but is a mess w a p&s bag. Another guy took 7 hits of deep penetrating 40 in the torso and he ran from the scene, had to be chased and wrestled to the ground...

European LE seems to want penetration in the 8 - 12 inch range and think energy transfer is important. They want bullets to stay in torsos as much as possible. So you get rounds like the EMB, QD, PEP, etc. About 93g at 1350 fps from a G19. Does what they want.

The Magetch First Defense and Corbon PowerBall/DPX are similar, but better light and fast choices IMO. Penetrate and expand better, transfer as much/more energy.

Magtech First Defense solid copper hollow point, 93g/1330 fps:

bare/cloth 11-12 inches
glass 20 inches
steel 20 inches
wood 25 inches

The FBI wants at least 12 inches of penetration in case they hit an arm first, are more concerned w adequate penetration in the worst case than staying in torsos in all cases, and ignores energy transfer. So you get rounds like Hydra-Shok, Golden Saber, Gold Dot, and Ranger T in 124 - 147 g. Does what they want.

Win Ranger T, 147g/990 fps

bare/cloth 14 inches
glass 11 inches
steel 17 inches
wood 15 inches

357 Mag? The Rem 125g Golden Saber (125g/1220 fps) penetrates fine, expands fine, and is low recoil too. Through heavy cloth does 15.7 inches/.59 caliber. Speer's 135g SBGD should be good too.

What do you want your ammo to do? Where you put your ammo is still waaaaay more important. ;)
 
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Like most folks here, I'd choose something heavier - 145gr at least. To stop the attacker, the bullet needs to take a line on the vitals (your part in aiming), and it needs to reach them (its' part). Get a heavier bullet and you will help the cartridge to do its' job.
 
From FBI tests through heavy cloth:

357 Mag
Fed 125g 11.75 inches/.51 caliber
Win 145g Silvertip 12.9/.64
Fed 158g JHP 15.9/.64

38 Special
Rem 125g Golden Saber +P 14.5/.59
Rem 158g LHP +P 13.8/.58
 
the 110gr i shot claimed 1300 fps this energy level exceeds 38 +p but is less than most 125gr....and i felt the difference in my taurus. i love the winchesters and found them very accurate and i am sure there wouldnt be any issues with self defense.
 
Only the hits count. The only real problem with 110gr JHPs is addressed in another thread, namely they might too hot and accelerate wear, especially in the forcing cone.
 
I carried the WWB 110 grains for many years. They are decent rounds that allow good follow up shots. But Recently (with in the lat 9 months) I switched to the Hornady Critical Defence. They have only slightly more recoil than the WWB and better performance. They are still not full blown 357 magnum loads velocity wise but I hear they do good in ballistic testing in gel.
 
I would go with Golden Saber 125 gr over any 110 gr load. Relatively mild, but still more than enough and less of an ear-splitting crack than the full house 125s!
 
The 110 gr .357 WWB is very close in velocity to the hotter 115 gr 9mms, less than some of the +P.
Unless you wish to dismiss 9mm +P, it is hard to ignore the light bullet .357 as a way to reduce recoil.

Not really relevant to SD, but a friend got astounding accuracy with it. Grouping in 1.5" at 50 yards and from a Taurus at that.
 
Post 36 brought to my mind a question

SIGSHR said:
Only the hits count. The only real problem with 110gr JHPs is addressed in another thread, namely they might too hot and accelerate wear, especially in the forcing cone.
Click to expand...
I ask, because I don't know for sure. I have always thought (through second-hand and nebulous knowledge) that forcing-cone erosion was due more to the powder than to the bullet. Could lighter-faster bullets mated to appropriate propellants cure the forcing cone erosion problem?

Lost Sheep

p.s., maybe I should start a thread in the reloading section. But in the meantime, does anyone have any thoughts that might shed light?
 
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