.357 Mag vs HOT .45 Colt

T

TruthTellers

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For years I've long said I would get a Rossi .45 Colt 1892 lever action, but it hasn't happened yet. It's currently at the top of my new gun list, but I'm having second thoughts. I reload and the bullets are expensive and hard to get right now for the .45, the .38/.357 it's not great, but it's not as hard hit as .45 Colt is.

So, I have some questions and when I talk .45 Colt I mean both standard SAMMI pressure ammo and hot Ruger only pressure levels. Here's the questions:

1. In a rifle, what does .357/.38 do that .45 Colt can't?
2. In a rifle, what can .45 Colt do that .357/.38 can't?
3. Are there significant reasons to choose one over the other? What if you are a reloader?

Basically, should I stay the course and get the .45 Colt as planned or should I seriously consider getting .357 instead?

Intended use right now is whatever rifle will be a companion piece to my .45 and .38/.357 revolvers.
 
357mag shoots faster and flatter and you don't have to exceed book loads to get good performance.

Cheaper to feed.

All around more useful chambering with 38 special as an option.
 
I have a .357 Rossi M92 (to go with my .357 Blackhawk) and want a .45 Colt version to go with my .45 Blackhawk. I have done a fair amount of pondering and research on the pros and cons.

My take is that the only practical advantage of a .45 carbine would be for game large enough that more power/penetration is needed than the .357 can achieve -- monster hogs, brown bear, moose, bison, etc. Since I'm not planning to hunt any of these (except maybe a monster hog), I can't really claim a need for a .45 carbine.

The .357 will shoot faster/flatter but since I'm partial to iron sights, the extra range of the .357 is really beyond my realistic hunting range, so that advantage isn't too important to me.

I love my .357 and it'll do everything I'm likely to ask of it. But I still want a .45 carbine.
 
Mycin said:
I have a .357 Rossi M92 (to go with my .357 Blackhawk) and want a .45 Colt version to go with my .45 Blackhawk. I have done a fair amount of pondering and research on the pros and cons.

My take is that the only practical advantage of a .45 carbine would be for game large enough that more power/penetration is needed than the .357 can achieve -- monster hogs, brown bear, moose, bison, etc. Since I'm not planning to hunt any of these (except maybe a monster hog), I can't really claim a need for a .45 carbine.

The .357 will shoot faster/flatter but since I'm partial to iron sights, the extra range of the .357 is really beyond my realistic hunting range, so that advantage isn't too important to me.

I love my .357 and it'll do everything I'm likely to ask of it. But I still want a .45 carbine.
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The deal with my situation is the .45 revolvers I have are awesome and I shoot them well and they're all multiple caliber shooters; the Redhawk also shoots .45 ACP, the Judge also shoots .410, and the 1858's also shoot cap and ball.

My .357's are all Charter's from the 80s and I bought them more because they were cheap, but good quality and I didn't have .357 at the time.

But over time I see how easy it is to get .38 and .357 brass and while it's not like I'm unable or unwilling to buy more new .45 brass, it's not available right now and IDK when it will be again and I'm not one who is willing to buy fired brass given IDK the history of it.

So, it seems that both .357 and .45 are capable of doing what I'd want, but .45 Colt would be able to do more, just that I have no plans to shoot the larger game that .357 could not.

I'll have to see what velocities .357 can get from a 16" barrel because I always try to shoot the cheapest bullets I can buy (cast lead or plated) and they don't seem to like going over a certain velocity while with .45 Colt even the hi pressure stuff seems to be under 1400 fps and all my preferred bullets would be able to do that.
 
You can get factory loads pushing a 200 gr Hardcast bullet out of a 6" 357 revolver barrel to 1300 fps. Not sure what you'd get with that load out of a 16" barrel, but you're looking at something close to 35 Rem velocities. Real world speeds from typical 20" barrels is going to be under 2000 fps for 35 Rem. That would do anything I need to do at ranges under 50 yards.
 
Man, I just went through this whole mess.

A while back I had the opportunity to shoot a 45C lever and it was a lot of fun. That big bullet really rings the steels and the cartridge is so flexible with powder charges and bullet weights. I almost drank the kool aid, lusting after one for years.

No doubt it’s a really cool round with lots of nostalgia. I started using my head though and talked with a few owners. Most all said that little case rim can get damaged fairly easily, and he showed me several brass cases that had split after three reloadings. It’s not a particularly durable case, certainly not like the 44mag.

There’s also the ‘scrounge’ factor. Rare as these are, if you lose a few 38’s or 357’s, it’s not a big deal. 45c shrinkage is a little more serious. Thankfully lever actions don’t chuck brass three rows over, but still.

I got one of the new Henry levers in 357. I cast and reload for it and don’t regret not getting a 45 at all. It’s ridiculously fun and arguably cheaper to shoot.
 
Chris, I believe you will find the modern 45 Colt case every bit as strong as
the 44 Mag for all practical purposes (Take a look at https://www.starlinebrass.com/45-colt-brass)

If there's a problem, it's that chambers are cut too large, and case expansion
stress takes its toll. (see https://www.marlinowners.com/threads/1894-45-colt-case-bulge-probably-an-old-topic.83380/)

That said, a 30ksi 45 Colt in my 20" Marlin still puts a 250gr bullet out at
1,850fps and almost 1,900 ft-lb energy.

By comparison, a 40ksi 44Mag/240gr runs 1,950fsp and 2,000 ft-lbs
from my other 20" Marlin.

Equal ??? Not quite

But if you've already got a 45 Colt/strong rifle -- and are a handloader -- don't sell it.


.
 
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Chris, the o' weak .45 Colt case myth is still going around I see.... In actuality it is every bit as strong as the .44 Magnum case (see link above from Starline). Yes the rim is a bit thinner... but the case is 'strong'. The myth really goes back to the o' balloon head cases way back in time. I think in the 50s is when production finally stopped... As for longevity, I have loaded a lot of cases over 20 times (different brands). As said above, if there is a problem it is usually with the chamber of the gun, not the case.
 
My experience, when you put a 300 to 325 grain GC flatpoint in a 45 colt rifle it becomes a whole different animal. The same idea as a 357 in rifle but to a much higher extent.
 
armednfree said:
My experience, when you put a 300 to 325 grain GC flatpoint in a 45 colt rifle it becomes a whole different animal. The same idea as a 357 in rifle but to a much higher extent.
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Had a chat with someone recently and he pointed out that 180 and 200 grain .357 loads for rifles are really all that's needed for most things out to 100 yards. .45 Colt with the 300+ grain loads are certainly potent, but past 200 the trajectory is steep.

The thing is for the 180 and 200 grain .357 bullets, I'd only ever use them for the rifle and never in my revolvers, but the 300+ grain .45 bullets I would use in my Redhawk as well as the rifle.

So, that is a bit of a factor as I like being able to shoot the same ammo in both handgun and rifle.
 
Well, `same could be said of 45-70 brass ... but no one ever says that now.
Instead they just load it up to near 60,000 psi and run it through Ruger #1s
:D :eek: :rolleyes:
 
Nanuk said:
It is not a myth, it is just not true with modern brass.
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I have no concerns about going over 20k PSI in .45 Colt brass so long as it's Starline because they state it can handle pressures equal to .44 Mag.

Magtech, Fiocchi, Federal, Hornady, and Ultramax I don't think use brass that was meant to be fired at pressures above SAAMI spec more than once.
 
Can't help but notice how often everyone brings up .44 mag to compare to. Get a .44--and you can forget about both the 357 and 45C; that's what happened to me. Easiest to reload cartridge there is, and the brass lasts forever.:)
 
Always a lot of opinions on effectiveness between 45LC and 357. Let's look at the Hatcher's Relative Stopping Power between them. A 357 Mag, 180SWC@1145fps will post an RSP of 50.401. A 45LC with a 250SWC@860fps will post an RSP of 96.627. I can't find the Hatcher plugin calculator, but my 45 Colt load of a 280gr SWC@1050 scored the same as a 44mag 240gr factory load@1300. Moderate recoil, 1.5"@25yds, and blows through hogs and deer at any angle. In a rifle, add 200fps, too! Mahvelous!!!
 
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I have no concerns about going over 20k PSI in .45 Colt brass so long as it's Starline because they state it can handle pressures equal to .44 Mag.

Magtech, Fiocchi, Federal, Hornady, and Ultramax I don't think use brass that was meant to be fired at pressures above SAAMI spec more than once.
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The brass does not support the pressure, the chamber does. A hot 45 Colt and a 44 magnum are very close.
 
Can't help but notice how often everyone brings up .44 mag to compare to. Get a .44--and you can forget about both the 357 and 45C; that's what happened to me. Easiest to reload cartridge there is, and the brass lasts forever.
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I am a huge 44 magnum fan.
 
Nanuk said:
The brass does not support the pressure, the chamber does. A hot 45 Colt and a 44 magnum are very close.
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And not all chambers are the same and since only Starline states their brass can handle higher pressures, I see no reason not to keep using them as the sole case for my hot .45 Colt loads.
 
Beyond the obvious enormous difference in the mass of the projectile, the width of the rim for the 45 is less than that of the 357 (nominally 0.0160 vs. 0.0305). That may, in some situations, result in less reliable extraction. I don't know. Would that sway your choice? Availability is nuts right now, but in normal times, the cost of powder and shot for the 45 will be significantly higher.

But this isn't about practicality. If you want a 45, get one. Or do what I usually do when faced with such a choice - get both.
 
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