.357 for bear

This may be a dumb question but here goes. Are there many cases of bears charging people getting shot and then eating them? I don't mean hunted bears, I mean attacking bears.

Do they ever find the remains of a person then find a bear with two or three bullets in it?

I ask this because most things that are shot try to run away. Although my experience is with hogs and coyotes, not 800lb bears.
 
.44 Magnum is my minimum for even the pint sized Ozark blackies we have around here. Brown bear vs. .357 is a losing proposition. Those bruins take a bit of convincing to believe they're dead.
 
The only comfort I would have with a 357 is that the bear will have a little painful reminder of me while he eats me.
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I have a friend who once said to have a really big steel handgun, make sure that you shove it into the bear's mouth before it eats you, that way you can have the satisfaction of know just how much that is going to hurt later when the bear tries to pass it!

People are really still trying to justify carrying a tool primarily intended as a defensive weapon against people as a good idea as a first line of defense against Alaskan bears?

Yes, it is possible that a handgun will work. No, it is not very likely that it will.

Bear spray: yes, 100% effective in Alaska; with no major injuries.
 
Are there many cases of bears charging people getting shot and then eating them?
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Yes, there are cases of bears having multiple healed over gunshot wounds that have mauled people. And accounts of people attempting/shooting bears before/during a mauling. Sometimes score one for the person, sometimes score one for the bear.

Read Larry Kaniut's Alaska Bear Tales or other bear books by him for documented accounts of bear encounters in Alaska.
 
10mm adequate, but marginal?

jgcoastie
(edited for brevity)

I don't think a .45 would be very effective against brownies, black bears maybe, but I'd leave it at the house in brown bear country in favor of a higher velocity round with similar weights (i.e. 10mm, 41mag, 44mag, 460, 500).
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason the .45 is a great man-stopper is because it throws a heavy bullet at medium velocity = probably not enough to penetrate the thick hide of brown bears and reach vital organs. The 10mm on the other hand is known as a deep penetrating round by any who know it well. It is my opinion that the 10mm is adequate when loaded with hardcast lead such as the round I previously recommened from DoubleTap. It's a deep penetrating round. I put five rounds into a stump about 40-44" in diameter and it blew five grapefriut size holes out the other side. I believe in my 10mm or else I wouldn't trust my life or my wife and children's lives with it.
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.45 ACP definitely short on penetration though heavy skin and muscle. .45 ACP Super might do with a hard cast bullet, but probably is too low velocity also. 45 Winchester Magnum definitely has more juice. .45 Colt+p is much better, as is .454 Casull/.460 S&W. 500 S&W is getting into rifle power levels (near 3000 ft-lbs in its heaviest loadings)

To answer your specific question, th 10mm approaches the 41 magnum in energy, but the revolver's 41 mag's choices in bullets go up to 300 grains. The 10mm guns just don't seem to take bullets much over 200 grains. I don't know what would happen if you took a 41 mag 300 grain bullet and fired it out of a 10mm. If you could get the longer bullet to feed, and had heavier recoil springs, it might work. Or you might be wearing the back half of your slide as a hood ornament (in the middle of you forehead). <please be not offended by my humor, no slight intended to 10s or their fans>

10 will do the job, but an 11 gives you an extra margin.

The last thing you want to do is produce a 10mm hole in a bear's shoulder bone when a 45 (21% more frontal area than the 10mm/41 mag) might break the bone.

I do agree that a well-placed 10mm is better than a poorly placed 45, though. So the advice, "Carry the biggest thing you can hit well with." is still valid.

Remember, energy shreds flesh. Momentum breaks bones. Between two bullets travelling with the same energy, a 250 grain slug has 12% more momentum than a 200 grain slug. Same energy, 125% weight, 112% energy.

So, that begs the question, "If I can hit, 3 rounds in 3" in 2 seconds at 7 yards with a 10mm or 3 rounds in 4.5" in 2 seconds at 7 yards, Which should I choose to carry?

This quest could go on forever.

Lost Sheep.

P.S. JGCoastie, your post
The best defense against bears is to pay very close attention to what's goiing on around you.
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is excellent. Jim March, also an excellent post.
 
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"You might want to read through a few of my posts on this topic. ... Read up."

I did, and as I said before you've obviously never been anywhere near a predator in its natural habitat.

Edit: I've had a mountain lion charge me in the San Isabel National Forest in Colorado. I walked around a corner at the lake, and bam there's a mountain lion. All I had was a flashlight and some fishing gear. It was cornered between me, a steep incline, and the water line. It did a warning charge and then froze, I shined my flashlight in its eyes and slowly backed away from it, giving it a clear path to run away from me up the boat ramp, and that's exactly what it did.
 
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New here but I'll add this...

I carry a 357 magnum on my side whenever I'm in the back coutry mountains of Colorado. My Girlfriend carries a 357 sig on here side. If I'm camping I carry a Mossberg 500a with a pistol grip and a sling loaded with buckshot or more often slugs. I've had 2 encounters with black bears....Both ran away.....1 encounter with a Mountion Lion stalking our 3 dogs that were tied to stakes. Every time I would throw a rock at the mountain lion. It's head would disappear in the grass and it would reappear seconds later at a new angle... We put the dogs in the truck and it left. I wasn't carrying then. But ever since then I've carried when in the wilderness areas and national forests camping or fishing.
 
Having worked up in Alaska, I can tell you that the Alaskans would consider .357 light for a bear. The standard is .44 mag. A grizzly has to be seen to be believed.
 
I did, and as I said before you've obviously never been anywhere near a predator in its natural habitat.
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You obviously did not read my posts, or else you would know that I have had my fair share of run-ins with Kodiak brownies... That's part of the deal with living here and going fishing...

I'm not intending on this becoming a **ssing match about who's been closer to death than who, all's I'm saying is that bear spray is more effective than any handgun at thwarting a bear attack.
 
Having worked up in Alaska, I can tell you that the Alaskans would consider .357 light for a bear. The standard is .44 mag.
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While living up here, I agree to that. However, 6 hits with a .357 Mag that you are comfortable with and can shoot accurately beat 6 misses with a .44 Mag that you can't shoot for ****...
 
Coondogger,

I agree with you. We also both shoot 400-600 rounds a week practicing shot placement which we would be greatly relying on in a bear attack without the shotgun or something else large. If I could have the pistol gripped 12 gauge Mossberg on me all the time conveniently....I would.... however It's just not practical all the time doing different things. I'd get a 44magnum or 500 but I'm on the hunt for a Russian milled action sks and a .50cal bmg rifle at the moment which will absorb most of my current spending funds.:(

I also have a 30-06 but prefer the pistol gripped 12 gauge with a 18" barrel, modified choke and 3" slugs. Maybe the 30-06 I have if I was hunting them from a distance but otherwise I agree the 357 magnum and sig would need a good shot and more likely a bunch of them. Still way better than nothing IMO.

The handguns we carry are plenty for a mountain lion and we only have to deal with black bears out here in Colorado. Still If I had a black bear charge me I would hope my 12 gauge Mossberg with a sling was on my back.

If I was in Alaska I would use my slug gun or step up and buy something of a larger caliber like recommended in this thread.
 
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Wow, I've been following this debate for a while. I posted some of my feelings and observations and even some questions about some of the products mentioned.

I own a 45-70 and would carry that, but I would also carry spray. I would be incline to use the spray first. Here is why...

I have used spray on humans many many times. I used to carry one the size of a small fire extinguisher. These are extremely affective. When you spray a person or for that matter any animal, the animal/person being sprayed is first stunned or surprised. They do not expect to be sprayed, even in the case of a person looking at you with the spray drawn, and do not know what to expect until it is too late. So, it startles them and breaks their focus. In a bear it may only be for a couple seconds, but you just bought precious time. Spray again if needed or draw your gun and fire. I have used spray in not just breeze, but wind. I have been down wind of it and up wind. I will admit that up wind is best, but because the spray is not what people think, it doesn't spray like windex, it sprays like a hard steady stream.

You AK guys correct me if I am wrong, but bear spray is much more powerful and sprays under higher pressure and harder streams then the run of the mill people spray.

Part 2 for me is that when I have shot animals the size of a bear, they were Bison, (More people are killed in Yellowstone by Bison than Bear) the animal was shot and unless the shot is perfect, they stand there and it is a bit before they are sick enough to fall over. A bear may not be scared off by being hit, just like the last two Bison I shot were not scared off by being hit, and I had to shoot them again. The bear probably will not do as a Bison and stand there, they will probably not do like a human that is wounded and try to flee or just fall over in pain, the bear is likely to continue to charge. So, if you do not have spray and only have a gun, you best be pretty damn good in pretty much a lot of panic, fear and ect. Now I say this because while fly fishing a bear decided he wanted my fish more than I did. When he came out of the bush, I was very surprised. I am not sure I want to find out if when I am that scared that I could drop my fishing gear and draw my 45-70 or my .44 and pull the hammer back on the 45-70 or just squeeze of a round of the .44 in time to save myself.

My point in the long response is you can while on the computer typing or at the range be very macho and feel the handgun/rifle/shotgun will make you a bear killer, but from experience when you see a bear coming for you, you will no matter who you are PooP yourself and have the flight instinct kick in! You all can say what you want, but from one who has been there done that, I will never go in the bears domain again without spray and a gun. Spray will be where I can get to it first and it will be used first!

Just my .02. If I am wrong on any point, please correct me, but I don't think I am.

Mel:cool:
 
You AK guys correct me if I am wrong, but bear spray is much more powerful and sprays under higher pressure and harder streams then the run of the mill people spray.
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You are correct. It is a much more powerful stream than regular OC. I've used both and believe me, bear spray will reach out and touch Yogi... I've had a few run-ins with him, and he runs when he's sprayed... My cans of bear spray are about the size of a 20oz soda bottle. The OC I'm issued for LE is about the size of a tall prescription pill bottle. You bet the bear spray is more powerful...

I also will agree that one should carry the largest, most powerful gun that they can shoot accurately and are inherently familiar with. For me, that's my Glock 20SF in 10mm, for others it's their .44 Mag. To each his own and good luck should the extremely rare case occur when bear spray is not effective...
 
I second indiandave. I saw two from the road while they were in their cage in Idaho at a college animal study unit. Pretty, huge and what a sight. I would not want to startle one of those guys!

Mel

PS. - Oh and my experience with OC is within the LE community too. We were issued small fire extinguisher sized bottles. MH
 
"I'm not intending on this becoming a **ssing match about who's been closer to death than who, all's I'm saying is that bear spray is more effective than any handgun at thwarting a bear attack."

Well I don't know what we were arguing about then because that's the point I was trying to make.
 
With some exceptions there are a ton of experts here who have never seen a coastal brown or an interior grizzly. i have spent a lot of time in AK on the rivers and i carry a .454 360grn hard cast bullets. I also have carried spray on the rivers. I feel better with the .454. a .357is just not up to it. nor is a .45ACP. awareness and commno sense are you best weapons.
 
I still vote for the Flamethrower.:D I admit the only loose bears I've seen are big black bears in upstate PA & NY. But I've seen real big ones in zoos and I tried not to make eye contact. I'm still working on that belt fed 357mag machine gun.
 
I'm still working on that belt fed 357mag machine gun.
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Let me know when it's finished... I'll be your first customer!!!:D

[apply sarcasm] I'll mount it on my Tahoe...

Oh $*!t :eek: , did I really just say that?!?! I've got to stop drinking that new Mall-Ninja Kool-Aid... :o
 
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