Concerning my "claim" about 32 penetration, The gunshop worker that gave me the info is totally reliable and wouldn't "make up" this info, especially since he was trying to sell these guns. He said they did tests using the KEltec using win st's, and they would not reliably penetrate a thick leather jacket, while Fiochhi hardball always did. No, I did not witness these tests, but I would believe this guy more quickly than some on these boards.