.300 Win Mag vs. .30-06 Springfield

Status
Not open for further replies.
Oldmanfcsa,

First of all, thank you for your service to this great nation. I am really looking at a savage because of the barrel nut and availability of replacement barrels. I like the .300 wsm, but I think it would be a little harder to find than the .30-06.

Thanks,

John
 
The gun I am looking at in .300 win mag is only 0.25 pounds heavier than the same gun in .30-06.
Click to expand...

Sounds light. How much does it weigh?

Have you considered the consequences in recoil?

Exactly what gun are we talking about here?

Also.....you might want to take that case life question over to the reloading forum. Might have a better chance of finding an answer there.
 
I am going to buy a Savage 116, specifically a Trophy Hunter XP. Recoil does not bother me too much. I am not going to make my choice based off of recoil.

Thanks,

John
 
My father proved (per witnesses' stories) that a GI load with a 150-grain Hornady Spire Point will kill Bambi at 500 yards.

I loaded my '06 a tad hotter. While most of my kills were inside of 200 yards, I had one-shot kills of 350 and 450.

Nothing wrong with the .300, but I just don't see any real reason for more "grunt" than an '06. :)
 
Brass life is going to be somewhat dependent on the quality of the brass you get. Cheaper Remington/Winchester brass is going to have say half the life of a more quality brass such as Lapua. However, there is a considerable difference in the price of the two.

I use to shoot a .300Wby with a 180 Nosler BT over somewhere around 78grns of 7828 (IIRC on the charge weight, been a while). I got between 5 and 8 loadings per case before they became unsafe to use. I've had 30'06 brass last as many as 10-12 loadings before I noticed unsafe conditions. This was for brass of 15-20yrs ago, this new brass (especially the cheaper stuff) sucks. I'm getting 5-6 loadings on a 7mm RM case these days with many being tossed after 3-4.

Even the SA cartridges I load like .243, 7mm08 and .308 have short lives compared to what it use to be.

As said, the 30'06 is going to be the best bet unless you just want the .300 WM. IMO for the application you list, the '06 will do anything the .300 WM will do with less adverse effects on you the shooter.
 
I have a friend who hunts with a 116 300 wm--it doesn't seem to bother him but I do know he's taken a quartering shot at close range and the bullet went the entire distance through the body leaving quite a bit of bloodshot. On the other hand he's never had to track a deer he's hit with it.

I bought the 111 XP package years ago for around $450--though the 3 x 9 bushnell scope it came with was nothing more than trash box fodder. It's a long range rifle; 4 x 12 would be the bare minimum I'd consider. I eventually put a timney trigger in, a 1-piece 20 MOA rail, SWFA 16x mil-mil scope and a Kantrol brake on. I did my own "stiffie job" on the stock and made my own recoil pillar. It shoots great; the recoil and muzzle lift are greatly minimized. The last load I was working on which showed great promise were with the Barnes 175 gr LRX bullets. Unfortunately My OCW ladder test was done at 100 yds--all 30 bullets for the entire range of powder charges drilled in a group of around 2.75"--impossible for me to get any meaningful node data.:eek: I presently have no access to a range with long ranges (300-1000 yds) and that renders the rifle into "just like any other rifle" status. That is the biggest drawback to the 300 wm as I see it--if you aren't going to be going long frequently it can very well end up a safe queen.

 
Taken with a cell phone--so it's distorted the picture somewhat. The rail is mounted on the standard mount screw holes--but it is canted for the MOA compensation. The rings are 1/2" Might be able to go lower--not sure how with a 1-piece rail. Shoots well and does not lose zero which is easy to do with a big boomer. The bolt throw barely clears as is.
 
Last edited:
So that gun is in .300 win mag, correct? I like both cartridges, and my LGS (only five minutes from my house) stocks both .300 WM and .30-06. Like I said before, my range is limited to 300 yards, at which distance the .300 win mag or .30-06 would do well. I still haven't received a response yet from PAFOA, where I asked if anyone knew a long-distance range near Pittsburgh, and I though I would throw the question out here, on my favorite (by far) forum.

Like I said before, if I bring the gun maybe twice a month to the range (maybe very other range trip, as I must give each gun a fair share of time :D), and shoot maybe 30 rounds each trip, that equals to 60 rounds a month and 720 rounds a year. During the warmer months (May through early August) I am a little busier, so I might only shoot 30 rounds a month or less, so realistically, I would maybe shoot 600 rounds a year. But even that is definitely stretching it, as I would probably only bring it on one every three range trips, so I would be pushing to get 400 rounds a year. If the .300 win mag costs 20 cents more per shot, for reloading, than it would be $80 more per year.

My main concern with the .30-06 is power, and if I ever wanted to go elk hunting or some kind of hunting in Montana or those states where the shots could be as long as 500 yards, I think I might want the extra energy of the .300 win mag. I just hate to buy a gun now, and then have buy another of similar caliber in a couple of years. I am not too concerned about overkill for close range brush hunting, as I have a .30-30 for that kind of hunting, and I am afraid the .30-06 would be too close to the .30-30. In general, I have got these energy figures for the three aforementioned rounds:

.30-30 - slightly under 2000 ft-lbs
.30-06 - slightly under 3000 ft-lbs
.300 wm - a little bit under 4000 ft-lbs.

What do you think?

Thanks,

John
 
Note the first .308 Win rifles on the market used a long action. A spacer on the bolt let a standard .30-06 bolt stop work and a spacer at the back end of the magazine fixed its length issue.

The problem with belted cases is an accuracy one; the fired case has to be full length resized all the way to the belt, not 1/16" short like dies do it. Special body dies do that.
 
Yes--my rifle is a 300 win mag; I believe one of the cheapest available.

I hardly ever use it due to my new living circumstances--but I'm still going to keep it and use it, because in the end I don't really care what anyone thinks about it vs something else. That said--we've tried to present a balance of information and only you can decide whether it's right for you or not.
 
My main concern with the .30-06 is power, and if I ever wanted to go elk hunting or some kind of hunting in Montana or those states where the shots could be as long as 500 yards, I think I might want the extra energy of the .300 win mag.
Click to expand...

I doubt very seriously if there is a game animal in the world that hasn't fallen to a '06 and out to considerable distances. If you're limited to 300yds practice at your range and most of your hunting shots are well inside that range, why would you A) want to take the additional recoil over and over the .300 WM is going to give you (I know you said you weren't recoil sensitive but 30rnds a session can over time make you that way) and B) the added expense of a round you may never see the benefits of in both money and power.

Don't take this the wrong way but it appears that you seem to be looking for this board to justify your want of a .300 WM. If you want the .300 WM, get it. It won't make you a better shooter or hunter. I use to believe a .300 Wby would make me better, it didn't. I've killed far more animals with a 7mm08 than I ever killed with a .300 Wby. Heck I've killed a truckload or two of deer with a 30'06 with bullet weights from 125grn to 165grn as well. My longest tracking job was with the .300 Wby, shortest are tied between the .243, 7 RM, 7mm08 and .308.

Horsepower and KE aren't nearly as big a factor in successfully killing an animal as being able to put the shot in the right spot no matter the distance.
 
308, 30-06, and 300 WM shoot the exact same bullets, just at different speeds. You've already stated that elk will be a rare event with whitetails as your primary game hunted. You don't plan on shooting past 300 yards.

At 400 yards a 308 is more than enough for elk. A 30-06 will do exactly the same thing as the 308 at 450 yards that a 300 WM will do the same at 500. The difference in bullet drop is insignificant, less than 3" at 300 yards separate 308 from 300 magnum. That is easily compensated for. A 308 will kick you with about 17-18 ft lbs recoil, a 30-06 around 20-22 ft lbs, and a 300 WM 30-32 ft lbs. You will notice recoil even though you don't think you do. It is subconscious.

You don't NEED anything bigger than a 308 to hunt anything on your list and it will be a much better option for 99% of what you actually do hunt.

If it has to be bigger than 308, then I'd choose 300 WSM and skip right over 30-06. It comes in a short action and most loads are just 50 fps less than 300 WM. But because it uses far less powder recoil is in the 25-26 ft lb range, much closer to 30-06. 300 WSM ammo is $2-$3 more per box and a little harder to find, but since you handload will not be an issue. Since it uses less powder (around 63-68 gr) compared to 300 WM (around 70-80 gr) it will cost less to load than 300 WM.

This is especially true of Savage actions. They use an extra long action opening and hole spacing for scope mounts. It can be difficult to find a scope and mount combo that works on their long actions. Not as bad on Savage short actions. But even their short actions are virtually the same length as every one else's long actions. This is simply a deal killer for me on a long action Savage. I'd buy one of their short actions, but if it had to be a long action chambering I'd look to other brands.
 
Elk were dropped at 500 yards with .30-06 rifles before belted magnums were on the market. The .30-06 loads were much weaker back then in the early 1900's.

Most people will shoot a .30-06 more precisely at 500 yards than using a 30 caliber magnum.
 
300 wsm is a great alternative--but brass is going to be expensive I would think--it's what I would call a semi-exotic; but boy-oh-boy I sure would love one in an AR 10 platform! :D
 
I have been reading some more online as well as some more of your posts, and right now, I think I am going to go with the .30-06, unless I find a longer distance range near me. I reload some .30-06 for my brother, and since he doesn't reload, I have the dies, so that is one advantage there. Unless something major comes up like a big supply of .300 wm I get in a trade or something, I will go with the .30-06.

Thanks,

John
 
The magazine will hold more rounds in 30-'06 than if it were one of the magnums. The 300 magnum will have substantially more energy at the muzzle and hence more recoil than the 30-'06. At 500 yards it will have lost much of that energy advantage over the '06. Therefore, the chief advantage of the 300 magnum at that range is primarily a flatter trajectory, not so much of greater energy.
Here's an interesting thought: A cartridge that shoots as flat as a 300 magnum, recoils a little less than a 30-'06, and delivers impressive energy at 500 yards,......hmmm, sounds like a 270 Winchester......
 
I may be a little late in reply. For a hunting rifle the 30-06 (or 308) is plenty kill power well into the 600's for deer. Bear,Elk,Moose its quite capable at 300+. No need to ever feel undergunned with a 30-06. Its an amazing versatile cartridge and has so many variants based upon it over the years. Even if you decided a Africa hunt you would still be fine with good shot placement. After all everything on that continent was taken with a 303 at one time or another.
Having said that I am a fan of magnums. 300 Win or Wtby mag is also a great cartridge. If you plan to shoot beyond 600 out to 1200 it is the better choice. So far I own 4x 30-06 and not 300 mags, but its on my short list.
I would like to add that after hunting with the -06 for 25 years I have yet to learn the art of tracking a deer. Never seen one take more than 3 steps after I pull the trigger.
 
Thank you. From what I am hearing from you guys is that the .30-06 is plenty powerful enough to hunt anything in North America.

Based on my ballistics program, the .300 win mag has about 380 more FPS velocity and about 590 more ft-lbs or energy at 500 yards than the .30-06. That is using a 180 grain Interlok SP.

I am not the best when it comes to imagining how much numbers mean in the real world, so I was wondering if someone could tell me how important/not important the gains I listed above are.

But right now I am definitly leaning towards the .30-06, as when I ran both the cartridges through a reloading cost calculator I made, the .30-06 would save me $40 per year Over the .300 win mag, if I shoot 360 shots per year.

Thank you,

John
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top