30-06 vs 308 question

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chris in va

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Please excuse my ignorance.

In brief, what advantages does the '06 have over a 308 round? I keep seeing the older cartridge come up in conversation but with modern powders and bullets available, not sure why the 308 doesn't just replace it.
 
The main advantage of the 30/06 is with bullets heavier than 180gr. Loading a 308 with 220gr rounds you have to seat the bullet too deep wich takes up case volume and velocity suffers.
 
Please excuse my ignorance.

In brief, what advantages does the '06 have over a 308 round? I keep seeing the older cartridge come up in conversation but with modern powders and bullets available, not sure why the 308 doesn't just replace it.
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I'll help you out here.

Because if you carry a measly 308, you can't say things like, "I got him with my ought-six." You'd have to say, feebly, "I managed to get this deer with my 308."
 
I'm sure a .30-06 fan will come along and tell me I'm wrong and/or list many other reasons the '06 is better...but as near as I can tell with bullet weights up to 180 grains, there isn't a lot of difference. Except maybe a 100 fps of velocity in favor of the '06 and the fact that the .308 Winchester is at least 10% more accurate. With 200-220 grain bullets the '06 does better due to increased length and powder capacity.
 
The .308 will not replace the .30-06 because hundreds of thousands of rifles have been produced in it for over 100 years. As some have already said, the only real advantages are using heavier than 180gr bullets. They're on equal footing otherwise. I prefer the .30-06 because I'm more likely to find a rifle I like chambered in .30-06 than .308.
 
Thanks, I suspected as much but needed confirmation.

I used some H4895 the last time for my Garand reloads and noticed a fair amount of space left over compared to IMR4895. The shorter 308 case just seemed more efficient for bolt actions.
 
From what i understand the purpose behind the 308 was to take the ballistics of the 30/06 and put it in a case more suitable for full auto guns like the m60. It also allows for a shorter bolt throw.
 
For most rifles as offered in today's world, it's pretty much six of one, half-dozen of the other between the common factory loads for the .308 and the '06. For probably 90% of all shooting, the .308 will work just fine.

Handloads in an '06 with a 26" barrel will give about 300 ft/sec advantage over the general run of .308s--particularly with bullets of 180 grains or more.
 
It really comes down to the rifle. If I were considering 2 identical rifles in each chambering, then there is no reason not to choose the 30-06. There are however many scaled down rifles that are more compact that are designed around the smaller 308 family of cartridges. If comparing a full size 7.5 lb. 30-06 to a more compact 5-6 lb. 308, I'll take the 308 everytime.

As far as power is concerned the 30-06 is roughly 50-100 fps faster than the 308 with factory loads with most bullet weights. By handloading I can actually beat factory 30-06 velocities with my 308. Of course I can also better 30-06 loadings, but no one ever complained about factory 30-06 loads being underpowered. Any way you look at, with equal barrel lengths, and comparable loadings the 308 will be no more than 100 fps slower.

Lots of talk about the 30-06 shooting the 200+gr bullets better. It is true that with those bullet weights the gap in speed starts to become larger. But I've yet to find a reason to shoot those bullets, especially with todays new bullets. You can make a argument that for hunting you don't need anything heavier than 165, certainly no heavier than 180. The Barnes and other solid copper bullets ahve changed all the rules about bullet weight and performance. I can shoot 130 gr Barnes TTSX's through my 308 at 3160 fps. That bullet has been used successfully on very large game such as moose, elk and some large bear giving complete penetration of several feet. With that type of performance there is no longer any need to use the heavier lead bullets.
 
I have used both, and love both. I also hand load for both. I think of my .308 as a 30 06 short. Like Mr Eatman said, when you handload the 30 06 to the same pressure as the .308 its in a different league. Its like an unbelted magnum that can exceed 3000 feet per second with 180 grain spitzers.
 
I am a 30-06 fan.
Versatility is the main reason I opt for the bigger cartridge.
The '06 will handle bullets from 110 gr. to 220 gr. and maybe heavier.
Within those ranges are a huge variety of bullet designs..
You can load up or load down.
For handloaders (I am) brass is for more readily available than .308, in my experience.
It is suitable for anything on the continent from prarie dogs to black bear, moose, elk, etc. I admit most hunters draw the line at grizzly bears but the .308 would be out of that picture also.
If I could afford a speciality rifle for every need, real or dreampt of, I might buy all those calibers because I like guns. I can't afford that. The '06 is my one for everything rifle.
 
3,000 with a 180gr!:eek:

Hodgdon doesn't show a single load for bullets heavier than 155gr that exceeds 3,000 and their highest 180gr is 2,800.

Alliant doesn't get over 2,800 with a single 180 load.

Even the max published velocity for 180gr bullets at handloads.com is 2,902 and that's from a 26" barrel and .2gr over IMRs max published load.


So, you might reach 3,000 with a 30 inch barrel. Maybe.
 
In brief, what advantages does the '06 have over a 308 round? I keep seeing the older cartridge come up in conversation but with modern powders and bullets available, not sure why the 308 doesn't just replace it
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Both rounds were designed as military rounds, by the time you get to mid 20the century the 30-06 was just too long for automatic weapons. The 308 was created to duplicate 30-06 M2 ballistics in a shorter cartridge.

As a target rifle it is very difficult to get 2500 fps with a 190 in the 308 Win. My 175's are at a maximum velocity of 2650 fps in a bolt rifle. That is way too hot for a M1a, which 175's should be just at 2550 fps.

I can push the 200 grain SMK just at 2600 in a 30-06, I push 175's, 190's at higher velocities than the 308 and it seems at lower pressures, because the cases last longer.

In terms of an across the course round the 308 is a better choice. Shorter bolt throw and kicks less. When you use powders that get rid of the air space in the 30-06, I can't tell any difference in accuracy between the two. Someone would have to duplicate the 600 shot targets that the Army used to shoot in testing match ammunition lots.
 
So, you might reach 3,000 with a 30 inch barrel. Maybe.
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Sure you could, and with a 24" barrel.... if you did not like your gun much ..... or your cases ..... and had little regard for the integrity of your face, etc.....
 
Well you guys caught me, congratulations. I was 200 fps off. Still 2800 fps @ the muzzle is pretty wicked with a 180 grain projectile. Still not a 300 Win Mag, but more than eneough to handle anything in North America. Thanks for enlightning me.
 
sort of

The 308 has replaced the '06 in fromal target/match shooting.

With sporting/hunting, so many grand old '06 rifles abound, and the cartridge is so entrenched in US shooting culture, that it is not going to go away.

Be sure and compare apples to apples. Stoke the '06 case with hot modern powder, and the light for caliber space bullets......and then compare it to the the 308 with factory loads and conventional copper/lead, and the 308 will not look near the equal of the '06.

All things equal, the '06 will exceed the 308 as described by others, due to its larger powder capacity. Most of us, and the game we shoot, cannot tell the difference between the two in the field.

A trim light sporter can be built aroiund the .308 due to its ability to be chambered in a "short" action. Think about the Kimber. Most of us can tell the difference between a rifle at 7.5 lbs and 6.5 lbs if we tote it up and down all day.
 
not sure why the 308 doesn't just replace it.
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That's like asking why the 5.7x28 doen't replace the tired old .22 Hornet. Once things are accepted and established as mainstream- they are gonna stick around regardless of whether or not a military has adopted it. With these two ctg's- GI adoption just added icing to the cake.

Replace the '06? Do you have any idea how many 1903, 1903A3, 1917, M1 Garand shooters would be ticked off if someone some day said, "OK the '06 has been here long enough- time to kill it."? That's not to mention all the folks who's inherited family rifles, the kid that spent a whole summer mowing lawns & collecting bottles and cans to save up for one, the guy that... oh, you get my point.
 
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