3 Texas men terror plot foiled.

JuanCarlos

Amen & wellsaid and all that. Certainly these guys should be let go if they don't have more on them than that (like to sightsee at bridges, like to buy phones in quantity at Walmarts across the country, and names sound middle eastern). BUT....

A couple counterpoints to consider - I don't know - I'm just throwing this out there:

I know a little bit about business, and it seems strange to me....if it's profitable to break up tracfones into parts and sell their parts for profits, why don't the makers of the phones just sell those parts themselves, and keep that profit to themselves? Likewise, if it's profitable to buy them at FULL RETAIL and resell them to the little guy, why don't some larger companies do this? And why on earth wouldn't the small cellular shops or even the average joe off of the streets just GO TO Walmart, for cryinoutloud? They are basically everywhere now - not hard to find.

And it's perfectly conceivable isn't it, that if you were exploding one IED, you would only need one cellphone...BUT, to take down a HUGE structure such as a bridge like the Mackinac, it would indeed take hundreds to thousands of small, well-placed (seperate) IEDs, just like bringing down a building by a demolition contractor takes a LOT of little explosions to do it right.

And also, someone implied that people who sell all of this type of crap on ebay get it from somewhere, and where do you think that somewhere is - Walmart and the like. Well, I don't know, but Idonthinso. I think more likely they are bought in bulk like CDNN buys guns, when they are highly discounted. Or stolen off trucks by the mafia, or anything but having been bought at full retail - just makes no sense. Buyers are stupid but not THAT stupid! I can see getting away with making a profit on items from stores that are specialized in a product, and only found in one or a few places (for example, if someone bought guns at the CMP and put them on ebay, marking them up). But c'mon, buying crap from walmart with sales tax, and then taking time to put it on ebay at a profit, and make your buyers pay shipping? Nah, you cannot make a profit like that, surely....

I think more likely than not, there are answers to these questions, and the guys are completely innocent, but what about these unanswered questions?

and lookit, Juan Carlos is not saying rough up the grandmothers - he saying don't rough up anyone unless and until there is evidence of a CRIME, or a plan to commit a crime. Buying phones ain't evidence of a plan to commit a crime, without much, much more. They have a little more, looking at bridges, traveling, but in light of their explanations, it ain't nearly enough to actually charge and book them, in my opinion. Watch, yes, definitely; charge, detain, and set three quarters of a million bond, not a chance. It goes back to the idea of probably cause vs. reasonable suspicion of a crime. Here we DO have reasonable suspicion. That's enough to QUESTION them and WATCH them. It's not probably cause, and thus not enough to arrest & charge them.
 
The terrorists we face will seek out any weakness of which they can take advantage. They will surely test those weaknesses, and use them against us. If our stubborn adherence to unyielding and unbending principles are found to be a weakness, they will surely take advantage of it. A tree that refuses to bend in the wind, will break.
Don
 
And it's perfectly conceivable isn't it, that if you were exploding one IED, you would only need one cellphone...BUT, to take down a HUGE structure such as a bridge like the Mackinac, it would indeed take hundreds to thousands of small, well-placed (seperate) IEDs, just like bringing down a building by a demolition contractor takes a LOT of little explosions to do it right.
Click to expand...

You need to go talk to someone who actually knows about explosives, "IEDs" and demolition with that line so they can spittle-laugh.

Otherwise, I've never seen so many people eager to sell out the hard won, bought with blood heritage of their country.
Where are these posters coming from?
 
@FirstFreedom:

As far as your first question, I already answered it. Tracfone doesn't sell the phones for less because by lowering the price, they are more likely to make a first sale and profit off repeated purchases of minutes. Again, this is not uncommon; video game console makers have been doing it forever (last I checked Microsoft has yet to make any profit whatsoever on Xboxes). Again, this practice was common enough (reselling Tracfone parts) that Tracfone has tried to use the DMCA to keep resellers from unlocking the handsets themselves.

Also, while a lot of small IEDs could bring down a bridge, a large truck bomb used against a building (or even crowded street) would probably be much more effective in my opinion.

Which brings me to this:

We would be painting an 88 year old crippled Grandmother with the same brush of terrorist suspicion as we would young Arabs?
Click to expand...

Why is it always 88 year old crippled grandmas? Why can't we instead treat all young able-bodied males the same, instead...and give the grandmas a break? Because anybody who thinks that terrorists can only be young Arab men need to talk to some families down in Oklahoma that I imagine are still grieving. As soon as you focus entirely on Arabs, you allow white terrorists (which, believe it or not, do exist in this country) a free hand.

Moving along...

I agree in part that it is insane, but it is a reality to which we have been driven -- by the FACT that we are faced with a VERY DIFFICULT-TO-DETECT ENEMY that is willing in toto to sacrifice the life of its last member in order to destroy our lives. The desperate measures we have been taking are truly desperate, and why? Because the nature of the attacks that this enemy engages in is random, unforeseeable, and undefendable.

Let me ask you, is it any less insane that every single person, no matter how utterly unlikely they are to be a terrorist, cannot board an airplane without being treated like they are being processed as an inmate in a high-security prison?
Click to expand...

First, don't get me started on the TSA. They are the worst offenders on the planet when it comes to giving only the appearance of security at the expense of our dignity. They're playing a drawn-out game of Whack-A-Mole, and it makes me sick. Every time they come up with some new stupid scheme to keep us safer (no liquids, taking off our shoes, etc.) the terrorists just come up with a new idea. Again, 100% security is impossible...another plane will be brought down...probably sometime relatively soon.

And yes, the enemy uses tactics that are unforseeable and undefendable; but that doesn't stop us from sacrificing the ideals we at least used to act like we had in order to try. At which point, in my opinion, the terrorist really have one. It isn't killing random Americans they're really after...it's about destroying our way of life. And they're getting us to do it.

Keep in mind that every soldier that has ever died for this country didn't just die to keep it safe, they also died to keep it free.
 
Heist

You need to go talk to someone who actually knows about explosives, "IEDs" and demolition with that line so they can spittle-laugh.
Click to expand...

I'm talking to you right now, so tell me. I assume you must know. If you don't know, then why'd you pipe up, genius? Elucidate for us, willya? That's why I put it in the form of a question ("isn't it"). Because I DON'T KNOW. Are you trying to say that one CAN take out a whole (huge) bridge with one big IED, instead of lots of little ones being required? Or are you saying something altogether different?

And why do you even find it necessary to be condesending to me, who agreed with your side of the debate?

JuanCarlos

As far as your first question, I already answered it. Tracfone doesn't sell the phones for less because by lowering the price, they are more likely to make a first sale and profit off repeated purchases of minutes.
Click to expand...

No, that wasn't my question. One of the alleged explanations here is that it is profitable to break the phone up into PARTS, and sell the parts. Correct?

So, tracphone could sell the exact same complete phones they are selling now, at the exact same price, and sell them in the same quantities, and thus get the same repeat business from minutes down the road. AND, they could also have these extra parts for them right beside them, which are in demand for some reason, and thus make extra additional profit from them. Why don't they do that, if these spare parts are profitable and in demand?
 
Freedom, most of the posters in this thread are really good at remaining civil. I would request that you make an effort to do the same? :) Thanks. :)

As it has been mentioned earlier, cellphones are not "ied" detonation systems of choice. Terrorists planting thousands of bombs over a major bridge borders on tinfoil hattery about 9/11 and "controlled demolition". You can't plant that many bombs without no one noticing, not in the sizes necessary for demolition. These people are getting caught before even putting a plot together all the way for chrissakes, it's not like they're going to go out of their way to make it easier to be thwarted. It's also not as if cellphones are the only remote transmission device available. It would be easier, cheaper, more fail-safe, less detectable and much more efficient to bring down a bridge using a standard frequency linked to all the explosives, or just one or two large vans packed with them. Perhaps a cellphone would be used to remotely detonate each van. That's a far cry from "hundreds."

But the biggest reason why cellphones will never be used as a detonation system en masse is that for each cellphone, you will need another to call it. Efficient mass detonation would be impossible, and it would be a slow process to set them all off even with an equal amount of phones to detonators.

Unless, of course, the terrorists have one dialer per phone all sitting in a room calling at once. Yeah, right.

It might not be exciting, it might not lead to cool new restrictions to make you feel safer, but the way terrorists will be destroying things will involve suicide bombers or vehicles packed with explosives, not elaborate demolition schemes. Sorry.

When some turrists' buy ammo at a gunshop and then go shoot up a mall with the AKs they smuggled in via Mexico, will you be among the crowd crying out for restrictions on ammo purchasing, or at least 'brown people' who are buying ammunition? Every logical tactic you have espoused so far would be doubly applicable in that situation.

Edit: would you seperate your original posts with after-the-fact edits like I just did now? It helps me see what is clarification and what isn't. I don't go back and change my words to make myself look better.

So, tracphone could sell the exact same complete phones they are selling now, at the exact same price, and sell them in the same quantities, and thus get the same repeat business from minutes down the road. AND, they could also have these extra parts for them right beside them, which are in demand for some reason, and thus make extra additional profit from them. Why don't they do that, if these spare parts are profitable and in demand?
Click to expand...

It is ridiculous that you're still clinging at this straw that is broken by a simple look at eBay.
 
Freedom, most of the posters in this thread are really good at remaining civil. I would request that you make an effort to do the same?
Click to expand...

Well if that isn't the pot calling the kettle black. Or did you think the arrogant, condescending "spittle laugh" comment, which added nothing to anyone's understanding of anything, and simply made fun of my admitted lack of knowledge, was civility? Clearly, you invited in on yourself.

Whether or not they could actually pull it off may have little to do with whether they THINK they could pull it off, and thus plan & prepare for it. They may not be the smartest Akmeds on the shelf.

And why don't you do more explaining the position that you seem to be so confident in, and less telling me to go look at and talk to other sources? I see stuff for sell on ebay. So what? It doesn't explain why it's allegedly possible to make a profit by buying stuff at Walmart. That's NOT where people get them, I don't believe. I don't see ANY ebay ads that say "I got this chinese junk at Walmart, and now I'm reselling it to you." Do you? And it also doesn't explain WHY the original maker of the phone wouldn't also sell the parts. Maybe it's shelf space, I dunno...

Here, have a look:

http://cell-phones.search.ebay.com/phone_Prepaid-Phones-Cards_W0QQsacatZ44925
 
I'm just honestly describing what a demolition expert would do on hearing the "mass cellphone demolition" idea. I don't know where you're getting 'arrogant' or 'condescending' here.
 
As far as cell phones for detonators go, believe me, they are using them in Iraq. I was hit by one. That being said, it would be useless to try and set off mass numbers of charges with multiple phones, as Heist indicated.

THAT being said, let's all take a breather here. These guys were arrested because their activity seemed suspicious. Upon further digging and reflection, the authorities decided that charges were NOT warranted. Soooooo, what's the problem? Innocent until proven guilty is the rule, not, "no suspicion allowed until proven guilty."

Sounds like the system worked to me. Assuming, as the police and prosecutors did, that they are in fact innocent.

I have no idea how much selling of Tracphones for parts happens, but it does sound like a plausible black/gray market 'opportunity'.

No way to make a definitive determination from the information we have.
 
When I took the NYC police test (I did not become a NYC cop, by the way, although I scored 98.something on the test -- one question wrong), there was a question that asked you what you would do if you saw a male adult running down the sidewalk carrying a pink purse.

The correct answer (I know it was because I know what the ONE question I got wrong was) was you do nothing. You haven't got reasonable cause to think that he committed a CRIME. He is FREE to be running down the sidewalk carrying a purse of whatever color he desires. (If there were a woman running after him yelling, "Thief!" that would be another story.)

I bring this up because I wonder what exactly was the CHARGE upon which these guys were arrested.

Don't get me wrong: in these troubled times I am very jaded against the presence of "the brown-skinned arab males" around the U.S. because I see the potential for the good ones simply being used as camouflage by the ones who really are terrorists -- and that this IS part of the terrorists' plan. They know that we will have a huge uphill struggle if we start, as a nation, treating all of the aforementioned group as terrorist suspects, and they are using the societal condemnation of such a policy to their own advantage.

But even though I myself am "suspicious" of islamic males in the U.S. (what, do you require an apology of me for it?), I still have to wonder upon what basis these guys were stopped and arrested. I can't see any single illegal act they were believed to have committed.

I mean, I like the fact that we have authorities who are on-the-ball and everything, but I don't want to be stopped and questioned if I happen to, like, buy three bottles of Advil on one shopping trip next time, and they start telling me I must be running a drug lab or making IEDs and they might let me go if I can prove I'm not.


-azurefly
 
Juhn Carlos, Check this out:
To ensure we Americans never offend anyone -- particularly
fanatics intent on killing us -- law enforcement and security
screeners are not allowed to "profile" people in public places or
security checkpoints. However, they will continue to perform
random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots
with proper identification, Secret Service agents who are members
of the President's security detail, 85-year-old congressmen with
metal hips and even Medal of Honor recipients. But targeting
Middle Eastern male Islamists between the ages 17 and 40
constitutes "ethnic profiling."


Let's pause a moment and review....


In 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by: (a) A salesman from
Utah (b) An construction worker (c) A college student on Spring
Break (d) Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17
and 40.

In 1972, 11 Israeli athletes were killed at the Munich Olympics
by: (a) Your grandmother (b) A Midwest auto-parts dealer (c) A
mom and her 6-year-old son visiting from Indiana (d) Middle
Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by: (a) A
bluegrass band (b) Dallas Cowboy fans (c) A tour group of
80-year-old women (d) Middle Eastern Islamist males between the
ages of 17 and 40.

During the 1980's numerous Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon
by: (a) A family on their way to Disney World (b) Jesse Ventura
(c) A Boy Scout Troop (d) Middle Eastern Islamist males between
the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by: (a)
A pizza delivery boy (b) The UPS guy (c) Geraldo Rivera making up
for a slow news day (d) Middle Eastern Islamist males between the
ages of 17 and 40.

In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a
70-year-old disabled American passenger was murdered and thrown
overboard by: (a) A girls' choir (b) A hardware store owner (c) A
secretary (d) Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of
17 and 40.

In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy
diver was murdered by: (a) A Marine officer with two weeks leave
(b) A plumber going to visit his mom (c) A Catholic nun (d)
Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by: (a) A college-bound
freshman (b) A cardiac surgeon on his way to Houston (c) A
waitress (d) Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17
and 40.

In 1993, the World Trade Center was bombed by: (a) A starving
actress (b) A mom with a newborn (c) Twin six-year-old boys (d)
Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 1995, a plot to blow up U.S.-bound international flights over
the Pacific was attempted by (a) Hawaiian school kids (b) An
decorated Vietnam Veteran (c) Twin sisters on their way to
Paducah (d) Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17
and 40.

In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
(a) A local TV weatherman (b) A dad and his two sons on a ski
trip (c) A widower going to visit his grandchildren (d) Middle
Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2000, 17 sailors died in an attack on the USS Cole (DDG 67) in
Yemen by: (a) A child in a stroller (b) A high school class on
their way to visit Washington, DC (c) Newlyweds on their way to
Miami (d) Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17
and 40.

On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked -- two flown into the
World Trade Centers, one into the Pentagon and one into the
ground in rural Pennsylvania. They were hijacked by: (a) A
retired police officer on a mission trip to Haiti (b) A
firefighter going to Maryland for training (c) An paramedic on
his way to vacation in Hawaii (d) Middle Eastern Islamist males
between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2002 the United States liberated Afghanistan from: (a) USAID
relief workers (b) Jewish Pilgrims (c) Christian missionaries (d)
Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl and other Westerners were kidnapped
and beheaded by: (a) The Peace Corp (b) Scottish clansmen (c)
Cuban refugees (d) Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages
of 17 and 40.

In 2002, more than 330 hostages in Beslan and 130 hostages in
Moscow were murdered in sieges by: (a) Russian exchange students
(b) The Red Guard (c) Church planters (d) Middle Eastern Islamist
males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2003 the United States liberated Iraq from "The Butcher of
Baghdad," but most American military personnel were killed by:
(a) Iraqi school-girls (b) Street vegetable venders (c) Women
without burkas (d) Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages
of 17 and 40.

In 2004, more than 200 Spanish civilians were murdered on trains
by bombs in Madrid, detonated by: (a) Morning commuters (b) A
three-year-old Chinese girl (c) Flamenco dancers (d) Middle
Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2005 more than 50 UK citizens were killed by bombs on trains
in London, detonated by: (a) Rail workers (b) Those unable to
hail taxis (c) Wheelchair-bound grandmothers (d) Middle Eastern
Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2005, there were hundreds of casualties, men, women and
children, killed by bombs in Jerusalem, Riyadh and Amman. These
innocent civilians were murdered by: (a) Construction workers (b)
Farmers (c) Christian missionaries (d) Middle Eastern Islamist
males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2005, the city of Paris, and other European cities experienced
an extended period of riots and destruction. The unrest was led
by: (a) "Youth" (b) Soccer fans (c) Catholic nuns (d) Middle
Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

Since the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom, more than 2,500
Americans have been murdered by terrorists. 35,000 Iraqi men,
women and children have also been murdered by terrorists. Most of
the combat and civilians casualties were the result of bombs
detonated in civilian population centers by: (a) Fruit vendors in
Baghdad (b) Disgruntled transit union workers (c) Iraqi
schoolteachers (d) Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages
of 17 and 40.

In 2006, hundreds of Israeli civilians have been killed by
rockets launched by: (a) the Salvation Army (b) remnants of the
'Jackson Five' (c) the cast of 'Friends' (d) Middle Eastern
Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

In 2006, a plot to blow up 10 U.S.-bound planes from the U.K. was
attempted by (a) members of the royal family (b) Japanese
tourists (c) groupies of the band 'Cream' (d) Middle Eastern
Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

Since 2001, the FBI reports that there are major terrorist cells
still in U.S. urban centers. Several of these cells have been
uncovered and cell members arrested. In every case, the
terrorists cell members were: (a) Southern Baptists
Conventioneers (b) Lutheran Youth Groups (c) Presbyterian Elders
(d) Middle Eastern Islamist males between the ages of 17 and 40.

President George Bush said this week, "America is at war with
Islamic fascists who will use any means to destroy those of us
who love freedom, to hurt our nation." The Council on
American-Islamic Relations issued an immediate objection to the
President's reference to "Islamic fascists". Nihad Awad,
executive director of CAIR protested, "We have to isolate these
individuals because there is nothing in the Koran or the Islamic
faith that encourages people to be cruel or to be vicious or to
be criminal. Muslims world wide know that for sure." In light of
this objection, we are left to ponder why every Islamic leader in
the U.S., and the world, does not publicly condemn every terror
action being undertaken in the name of the god of Islam. Their
silence is deafening...

Between 1970 and present, there were more than 60 other notable
examples of terrorism perpetrated by Middle Eastern male
Islamists between the ages 17 and 40, but we think you get the
point. Singling out "Middle Eastern male Islamists between the
ages 17 and 40" is not "ethnic profiling," it's "terrorist
profiling" -- acting on prolific evidence.

Anyone for Terrorist Profiling?

Semper Vigilo, Paratus, et Fidelis! Mark Alexander
Publisher, The Patriot

(Circulation of this e-mail is sponsored by The Patriot Post --
the most widely read conservative e-journal on the Internet. If
you have not already joined the ranks of American Patriots
receiving this highly acclaimed conservative digest of news,
policy and opinion, link to:
http://PatriotPost.US/subscribe/atp
and The Patriot will be delivered FREE by e-mail to your inbox
each week. If you don't have Web access, send a blank e-mail to:
subscribe@PatriotPost.US
and you will be subscribed automatically.)

"Anyone for Terrorist Profiling?" is posted on the Internet at
http://PatriotPost.US/alexander/edition.asp?id=341
 
Mike40-11 , The state droped the state charges, but these guys are not out of te woods Yet, they are being turned over to the Feds for investigation, so we are yet to know just where Juan Carlos will now take this new information, one thing is sure, he is a Hard headed, stuborn individual, I respect his tenacity but fail to get his logic, but anyway Fire Away.
 
azurefly , I don't rember for sure if it was the three or the two in Ohio, but I heard that two men wanted to activate two phones and when aske to give their names to activate them they refused to comply, I am pretty sure now it was the guys in Ohio, and I think it was a Radio Shack Store, but any way that was the two, the three were turned in for a suspicious purchase of a large number of Cell Phones, and the Police simpy stopped tem for questioning, and it took off from there. But it was a Citizen tip that was followed up on, in both cases and that is as it should have been.

Kelly J, THANK YOU! That was hysterically funny! Right into my EverNote files it goes! I wonder did you read the rest of that post or did you stop at the part you liked?
 
10,554 people were shot in the United States in 2004 by:

a) tennis players

b) people who own stereos or;

c) people with guns.

This is such stunningly simple logic. Now that I understand the need and justification for profiling, I see no reason why we shouldn't automatically search and possibly detain for questioning any nearby gun owner whenever there's a shooting.

After all, 100 percent of shootings happen at the hands of people with guns, therefore, we should throw our resources at the correct target population: people with guns.

Same logic, right?
 
It appears that you guys who support this are mired in a false-choice construct. You're telling me that at this point I have to either give up my rights or die at the hands of terrorists, but haven't explained why.
I'm saying that we can defend ourselves against this threat (and I use the term loosely) without resorting to fascism.
So please explain to me why this is impossible.
 
You're telling me that at this point I have to either give up my rights or die at the hands of terrorists, but haven't explained why.
I'm saying that we can defend ourselves against this threat (and I use the term loosely) without resorting to fascism.
Click to expand...

GS,
It's almost never we agree and this is two days in a row that I agree with in part you.
I keep hearing people throwing inoccent until proven guilty around, but with the current things that seem to be going on, we're all broad brushed guilty until you prove otherwise.
The lady yesterday having an anxiety/clostrofobia attack is being charged with interfering with a flight crew I saw this morning. It's a medical/phsycological condition not criminal. Hope I never have a heart attack while flying............wouldn't want to interfere with the flight crew.:rolleyes: This is really starting to get ridiculous. What was more ridiculous was the "factual" reporting she had a screwdriver, vaseline and a note about al Qaida. They reported it based on a phone call from someone that can't even identify.

I'm all for profiling terrorists, but that is only a piece of the puzzle to catching terrorists. It's not perfect, but it will eliminate the broad brush approach of giving the same scrutiny to an 80 year old lady from Iowa as a 20 year old male from Pakistan. Let's look harder at those who are likely and less at those who are unlikely to commit terrorist acts. Also let's not forget all of the non-muslim terrorist groups who were operating prior to 9/11 what are they doing now?


Let the flames begin:rolleyes:
 
I can't believe how many of you just don't get it. Like it or not, we are at war. This isn't about giving up your hard won freedoms, it's about denying the terrorists their own Bill of Rights. It's about protecting our hard won freedoms from those terrorists who would like nothing more than to destroy our way of life. Terrorists who would love to murder each and every American. Our way of life is a threat to their ideology and control. I can't remember the time when this country was under a bigger threat than it is right now by these Islamic Facist organizations and of course our own left wing of the Democrat Party, whose policy of failure has led us to this place in time. You people honestly feel more threatened by our own law enforcement efforts than you do by terrorists? Your happier having every American searched and suspected than you are at allowing a handful of real life suspects to have their feelings hurt. Do you realize how out of touch with reality that is? Reality demands that people that do suspicious things should be suspect.
Don
 
Big Blue,
I am being called upon to perform some domestic duties. I've got a riot act to bestow upon you once I'm finished. Stay tuned....
 
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