2nd amendment rights stepped upon
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Danindetroit
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This means in respone to leaving a particular county, you can come upon a bad police officer in any other county, that possibility exsists. If you can prove that all the officers in a particular county, are polite let's see it.
I said that most times officers are very confrontational on an initail stop. They are proffesionals, they should try not to escalte a situation. It is not a big deal for a cop to pull over 5 people in a shift. Most people get pulled over once in every 2 years. If you do not recognise that this can be an experience, where adrenaline flows and can be stressful to the driver, shows your ignorance, and lack of empathy. When I was a proffessional driver, I had to act proffesionally, and realise certain dealings with law enforcement were going to happen. Most officers were rude at first, until I went and tried to appease their ego's, and the fact they did not know that it is illegal to weld on any part of a device used to hitch a truck, and had to point out welds, on what is basically a pintle on a double trailer, it is called a clam shell on a gravel train, because it uses a thick metal pin, and a device like a giant safety pin to keep the pin from gettin lose, the metal, on the ring, and clam shell is hardened, the pin is soft, and wears, but is easily replaceable, welding hardened matal weakens it, I do not want to lose a 30 ton loaded trailer on the highway and kill some person, and their kids.
I assume a cop is afraid for his safety in any traffic stop, and turn off my engine, and throw my keys on the dash, by the vin number so the officer can see them. I do not get my license, or registration, I move my hands as little as possible, at night the over head light goes on. My hands are on the wheel. If asked for registration, I state where it is at, and tell them I am going to get it, I wait for acknowledgement. I think that is pretty good cooperation. Some officers still are rude, ask me about my record, they never believe when I says I have 0 points. They make a comment about, I can check, I repeat my statement. They are sometimes nicer, when they see that I am not a scumbag, even though I drive lower end vehicles, cutlass supreme, buick regal GS, brand new on 3 year leases. I am told by most people that I look only 25, so maybe that is why I am hassled.
My wife is a works for the corrections department, for the last 10+ years. How many times were you in a room with 60 actual BG's about 60% never getting out. She works probation, she delt with a gentleman who was attacked by his wife, my wife went to his home. Within 4 weels that same guy, shot his 4 kids with a SG, in the home's basement, and lit them on fire. Around her office of 30+ agents, they call her Crazy Mrs. Dan. She doesn't coddle these people, she shows them respect, and they give it to her. Working on a prison unit, the tough guy thing doesn't go, it will get you hurt, and other people hurt. I know because an officer was badly injured, for not showing a lifer respect. This guy thought he was bullet proof, lifted weights, probable steroid user, was solid muscle about 300 lbs. at 5' 9". He challeged inmates to weight lifting contests, I heard he benched 585lbs. at the prison with no warm-up. A lock down warning was issued, everybody in their cells, one guy, 6' 4" 180lbs, worked out, was going too slow. The officer started pushing this guy, he's a lifer, level 4 prisoner, what does he have to lose?. He started punching this officer in the face, using his height advantage, that officer learned right then, that weights do not hit back, he tackled the con with his arms around his waist after about 15 seconds, the con was on the bottom still punching, a maintenance man started helping, and after a minute more guards arrived, and it was stopped. In one minute this con got bruised knuckles, the officer got a broken jaw, nose, cheekbones, and one eye orbit. He learned that there are no exercises to strengthen your face either. If the officer would have just treated the prisoner with respect, he would have done fine, but he went the other route, putting your hands on a prisoner is not allowed, except in certain circumstances, this guard was known to do this.
Most police officers will just not meet enough people to run into a person like this. You state that people in cuffs, remember things different, I remember in my situation I was held, and not issued a ticket, or a summons. Prove my story can't happen. If that is the case, then police probably remember things different also. I look at being polite as very inexpensive insurance. It may help you one day. I see no reason how it can possibly hurt. If you can explain a valid reason to not inform someone what is going on I would like to hear it, other than I don't have to. Because it is a crap shoot, the choice to interact with police, and not to, I choose not to. You are likely to get a good officer, but when you get a bad officer, it erases, almost any of the experiences with good officers, like I said most of my run-ins are old. I know the blue wall still exsists for other reasons in detroit. It is not the same as bad cops, but just that police will protect cops even ones that are criminal because of the uniform, one of the people I grew up with will probably be in prison a long time because he got police busted, he even gave info that got the chief of police busted, he got people close to mayor young busted, he has a lot of enemies who are "upright" citizens, because he got their friends thrown in jail.
If you do not see in my posts the fact that I think that this should be verified, because it sounds too good, then you didn't read my posts.
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Danindetroit
New member
It depends on the state. A bad attitude is not ground to put a person in jail. In MI if you are stopped and have midemeanor warrants, the cop can collect money, and give you a receipt of the fact. They are bsically bonding you out with out the hassle of going before a judge. This had happened to me for a charge of disorderly conduct. Whne I appeared before the court, the judge did not even mention that the charge should have been taken car of 6 months ago. He just increased the fine by about 15%, and let me pay it, no speech, no lecture.
This guy is from a small police force, and has not been an officer that long. I don't think he has been in a murder/rape case, and the stress of it, he is probably a ticket writer.
A lot of police, tend to be alpha males, they have to be in charge, and dominate a situation. I call it the Wolf/dog theory. When dogs meet they bark, and nip, and find a pecking order. The same things for some guys. I have a friend who is a prime example, 90% of the time when in a social situation he meets a new person, and they disagree with them, he gets hostile, and acts agressive. He has to make descisions, like where to go, how long to stay, if someone disagrees, he sees it as a challenge to his authority, and if this happens he wants to go home. After a while he calms down, and relaxes. It is kind of funny. You meet these people on the job, in school, everywhere. I try to act non-treatening during a police stop, but if the officer, is burnt-out, or whatever, there power allows them to take it out on you. Less power to the police for stopping a person, less unenforceable morality, and vitim-less crime laws, and revoking miranda, and other criminal rights laws, and maybe things will be better.
ps I did not even bother reading lily's post very well until 10 pm.
Well this is very telling, you have never even been to a reasonably large city. No one was being assaulted, why come out. The police never came out, my parents went to the police station, to file a report, for insurance. The only time the police came out, is when a car ran into our house, went up the porch, over to the neighbors house, and finally was resting on the frame. A lot of officers showed up to see that. You are calling me a liar now. Pack your bags, and go to a large metropolitan area. Not 50,000, or 300,000, but at least a million people, in 180 sq miles. Call 911 on a saturday night at 11 pm. This was in the 70's. Your point about puberty, is lost on me. I mention my age in my profile, I made a lot of decisions on how my life was going to be lived before I was 10 years old, and not liking bullies was one of them.
You wouldn't last 1 shift as a prison guard, either you would be scared, and it would show, or you would overcompensate, and try to act tough, that won't go over well either. Did I mention, that MI prison guards carry no weapons. Have you even been in jail even overnight? I bet you would cry.
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The original poster in this mess, should have been more discrete with the firearm. Legal or otherwise, going about in any large city, overtly displaying a firearm (including wearing it openly in your car), is literally asking for it. "Rights" and etc, need to keep enough within enough real world knowledge of how our system actually works-to avoid unnecessary confrontations with authority. Simply put, right or wrong, its often not the offense...but the mere fact of questioning the system which brings the trouble. Even if its by stupid symbolic acts.
That said, if this account is correct...the behavior of the RO, virtually reeks of playing a 'round robin' traffic stop. Accordingly the whole 'probable cause' on this mess would seem to be very slight, at least. Too much of the "license light out, you were weaving slightly, 5 mph over the limit" paradigm, usually indicates a department which is overemphasizing revenue, or is using some very thin rationales for stops & detention. The whole thing, however no doubt escalated when the RO saw the exposed firearm. And once the system rolls into motion, it does tends to do so excessively...guilt or innocence has little to do with the end result. More a matter of whose got the best lawyer, and what level of 'guilt' you can bargain the mess down to...
Concerning the statement that ones authority doesn't need to be explained provided its within interpretations of the law, or within department protocols...probably appropriate in a anonymous (somewhat) forum like this one. However, in a community sense, general attitudes of that type are one reason for the increasing division of community and LE.
One of the reasons I quit working for the courts...was because of an overemphasis on trivial power, and the assumption that what they did with it was right, because of who they were... so get very nervous when hearing statments of this kind implying that individual power is beyond effective review...except within that system.
And 'attitude' as a rationale to be sent to jail?...Oopsie, exactly what country are we living in?
And under that standard, most of the people in this forum should be taken out and shot...way too much questioning of authority here...
That said, if this account is correct...the behavior of the RO, virtually reeks of playing a 'round robin' traffic stop. Accordingly the whole 'probable cause' on this mess would seem to be very slight, at least. Too much of the "license light out, you were weaving slightly, 5 mph over the limit" paradigm, usually indicates a department which is overemphasizing revenue, or is using some very thin rationales for stops & detention. The whole thing, however no doubt escalated when the RO saw the exposed firearm. And once the system rolls into motion, it does tends to do so excessively...guilt or innocence has little to do with the end result. More a matter of whose got the best lawyer, and what level of 'guilt' you can bargain the mess down to...
Concerning the statement that ones authority doesn't need to be explained provided its within interpretations of the law, or within department protocols...probably appropriate in a anonymous (somewhat) forum like this one. However, in a community sense, general attitudes of that type are one reason for the increasing division of community and LE.
One of the reasons I quit working for the courts...was because of an overemphasis on trivial power, and the assumption that what they did with it was right, because of who they were... so get very nervous when hearing statments of this kind implying that individual power is beyond effective review...except within that system.
And 'attitude' as a rationale to be sent to jail?...Oopsie, exactly what country are we living in?
And under that standard, most of the people in this forum should be taken out and shot...way too much questioning of authority here...
It's interesting how often our system compells the necessity to lie...for one's own protection, even when no violent or criminal act has occurred, or has even been thought about.
Sometimes it seems, the mere goings out and about of daily life, necessitate this deceit.
And the people who run our systems, and enforce it's rules, wonder why its all held with such reserved and limited esteem?
Sometimes it seems, the mere goings out and about of daily life, necessitate this deceit.
And the people who run our systems, and enforce it's rules, wonder why its all held with such reserved and limited esteem?
If you are still searching for an attorney, contact the Second Amendment Foundation. They are based in Bellvue. I don't know how close Bellvue is to your location, but it is at least governed by the same state law. The NRA also operates a Civil Rights Defense Fund, which takes on Second Amendment claims. Both of these organizations pick and choose which cases they will accept; and look for the perfect case that they can use to create future precedent. But even if they will not accept the case, they may have some suggestions on which attorneys in your area might be good for this case.
http://www.nradefensefund.org/docs/officers.html
http://www.saf.org/
http://www.nradefensefund.org/docs/officers.html
http://www.saf.org/
PsychoSword
Moderator
liliysdad-
I bet his mom grounded him from the computer after the Sgeriff's Department came to her house to investigate internet slander.
Grow up.
An individual makes a slanderous statement with more holes than a screen door, has nothing to back it up, and Im the one that needs to grow up?
I am sorry for those who feel all Law Enforcement is bad, but it just isnt so. People must make things up, or at the very least, blow things so far out of proportion that it borders on the insane, to make thier beliefs more substantial. This is the type of story one would see on THR, and it is no less ridiculous, no matter where its at.
The fact that the original poster never came back removes any amount of belief, no matter how small, I might have had. Maybe they came back, and wrongfully arrested him again. Maybe they got him for ripping the tag off of his mattress, or perhaps recording VHS tapes....
I am sorry for those who feel all Law Enforcement is bad, but it just isnt so. People must make things up, or at the very least, blow things so far out of proportion that it borders on the insane, to make thier beliefs more substantial. This is the type of story one would see on THR, and it is no less ridiculous, no matter where its at.
The fact that the original poster never came back removes any amount of belief, no matter how small, I might have had. Maybe they came back, and wrongfully arrested him again. Maybe they got him for ripping the tag off of his mattress, or perhaps recording VHS tapes....
Danindetroit
New member
Detroit police called the worst
http://www.freep.com/news/locway/probe12_20030612.htm
I think illeagal detention is mentioned.
These units were supposedly disbanded, but they still went out. The last time I saw the Big Four was 1991, Warren and Greenfield. Different name maybe, same result.
I posted this.
You can find LE officers that are cruel, and have agenda's, the possibility exsists. They can be found in almost any part of the US.
I am going by my experiences, this story may have happened, but it is probably a Hoax. I am glad most people did not experience these things.
http://www.freep.com/news/locway/probe12_20030612.htm
I think illeagal detention is mentioned.
These units were supposedly disbanded, but they still went out. The last time I saw the Big Four was 1991, Warren and Greenfield. Different name maybe, same result.
I posted this.
You can find LE officers that are cruel, and have agenda's, the possibility exsists. They can be found in almost any part of the US.
I am going by my experiences, this story may have happened, but it is probably a Hoax. I am glad most people did not experience these things.
Dan, at your behest, I did some research, and it seems that Detroit has a very bad rep, even in law enforcement circles. This being said, I am sure the average Detroit cop is a good guy, the blame can most usuallt fall upon the shoulders of those in middle management.
Even so, the stories of Detroit most normally are not as severe as the one so fragrantly fabricated here.
Even so, the stories of Detroit most normally are not as severe as the one so fragrantly fabricated here.
Danindetroit
New member
I am glad that you can work in a department, that things are the way they should be. It is ingrained in every department in detroit not just the PD, hardly anybody has any supervision, from the water department to the schools.
http://www.detnews.com/2003/specialreport/0306/29/specialreport-204834.htm
This is the type of things that went on, and goes on, it is from the top down. Like I said be thankful, that you are in a good department. There is a good reason, that the feds watch detroit, I would move out of here in a minute if I could, the upside is that there are from 3 to 5 level 1 trauma centers around, and so much research, with Michigan U, and Wayne state U so close, for medical problems few places in the country beat it. I think a lot of military Drs. come to Detroit Receiving Hospital to study gunshot wounds. There are many different culturals around here, you can learn a lot.
http://www.detnews.com/2003/specialreport/0306/29/specialreport-204834.htm
This is the type of things that went on, and goes on, it is from the top down. Like I said be thankful, that you are in a good department. There is a good reason, that the feds watch detroit, I would move out of here in a minute if I could, the upside is that there are from 3 to 5 level 1 trauma centers around, and so much research, with Michigan U, and Wayne state U so close, for medical problems few places in the country beat it. I think a lot of military Drs. come to Detroit Receiving Hospital to study gunshot wounds. There are many different culturals around here, you can learn a lot.
IamNOTaNUT
New member
Thanks guys!
Reading through these posts, and the links, has reminded me why I quit hanging out here. I won't be back anytime soon. And I seriously doubt I will be missing anything. There are plenthy of other forums where people are treated with respect and members are not so full of themsevles.
Reading through these posts, and the links, has reminded me why I quit hanging out here. I won't be back anytime soon. And I seriously doubt I will be missing anything. There are plenthy of other forums where people are treated with respect and members are not so full of themsevles.
Dex Sinister
New member
I believe that the original poster cited the correct code section: RCW 9.41.050; note Section 2(a) and 3(a). It would appear that an unloaded pistol may be "in one's possession" in a vehicle as long as one does not leave it when one leaves the car.
RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.
(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.
(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.
(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.
RCW 9.41.050
RCW 9.41.050
Carrying firearms.
(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.
(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.
(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.
(3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.
(b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.
RCW 9.41.050
Dex Sinister
New member
<sigh> Dan, does ANY of this have anything to do with the original thread???
Sheesh!
If you do not have a CPL in Washington state, you can have a pistol in the car as long as the ammo and the pistol are totally seperate. Best practice is to keep the ammo in the trunk and the pistol in the glove box, or vice versa. Have the ammo TOTALLY out of reach.
Unfortunatly, I can't suggest getting a CPL here now, because this little entanglement will most likely prevent you from getting one for awhile. But if you ever can, get one. Its good in Idaho, Montana and Oregon also, so thats a bonus.
Good luck
Unfortunatly, I can't suggest getting a CPL here now, because this little entanglement will most likely prevent you from getting one for awhile. But if you ever can, get one. Its good in Idaho, Montana and Oregon also, so thats a bonus.
Good luck
Danindetroit
New member
Dex I'm not sure what were we talking about?
PS You tell me.
PS You tell me.
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