I would like to post a question and the incident the stimulated it.
The question:
Is it possible to stand up to our second amendment rights without compromising our conscience and beliefs and still protect our families and stay out of jail. From the experience that my husband and I had on the 16th of this month I am skeptical. It seems that the only way it to stand up for the second amendment is to end up breaking the law, or get severely harassed.
The incident:
I Am Finished
Updated 11 pm Dec. 18th below
At around 8:30 pm on Thursday, December 16th the wife and I left Pullman, WA on the way to Omak, WA. The quickest way to do this is by passing through the west end of Spokane and then out highway 2. I, as per usual, had my handgun holstered on my hip with the clip between my legs. The reason the clip was not in the gun is because without a CPL the gun must be unloaded when in a vehicle, RCW 9.41.050 -- minus a few exceptions, RCW 9.41.060. As we started up highway 195 and neared Spokane the highway turns into a divided highway with two lanes of traffic in both directions with left turns allowed across the middle. At around 9:30 pm, while heading north bound in the right lane of the highway a Spokane sheriff’s deputy pulls out a little way in front of me, coming from my left. He moves directly into the right lane and gets up to speed. This left me probably 20 car lengths away from him, both of us in the right lane. I had cruise control on at the 60mph speed limit. The officer was pulling away until he started to come upon two slower moving vehicles. One was in the right lane and one in the left lane, (the one in the left lane was farther ahead). As the deputy caught up to the one in the right lane he moved into the left lane. I stayed in the right lane longer, because the officer had slowed down slightly and was only staying even with the slower moving vehicle in the right lane. It finally looked like the deputy was going to pass this vehicle and so I went to the left lane as well behind the officer. As soon as I did the officer started to slow down. He slowed to almost 40, during which I tried to slow down fast enough to allow for following distance. I was about to move back into the right lane when the deputy turned on his left turn signal. Seeing this I stayed in the left lane, waiting for it to clear. He then slowed to about 30 before moving into the left turn lane. As he moved to the left lane I accelerated into the now open left lane. I passed the slower moving vehicle in the right lane and then turned into the right lane in front of him. As I looked in the rearview mirror while turning into the right lane, I noticed the deputy get back on the highway. He slowly caught up to me and moved into the right lane directly behind me. Knowing it was a deputy I slowed slightly and waited. We traveled like this for about 3 miles, (we went back earlier today and measured the distance). At about 3 miles the deputy turned on his overheads. I pulled to the shoulder and stopped. I reached down and unlatched the lap belt and pulled out my wallet. I got my drivers license out and put both hands on the steering wheel. The officer approached from the driver’s side. I had the window rolled down and he immediately asked for license, registration and proof of insurance. I had my license in my hands and I reached up to my visor for the license and proof of insurance. He was shining his flashlight down at my holstered handgun and said, “And since you have a handgun let’s not do any quick movements.” I said I wouldn’t and that I would leave my hands in the open. I reached out the window and handed the officer the three documents. He leaned in closer and shined his light between my legs at the guns clip. I left my hands on the steering wheel. He then asked for a permit for the gun. I said a permit was not needed. He asked again for a permit, I again stated I don't need a permit. I then asked why he hadn’t told my why I was pulled over. He said, “Because you didn’t ask me.” I asked what the reason for the stop was for. He didn’t answer me. I asked again saying law requires you inform me of the reason for your stop. He plainly took offense to this question and stated, “I pulled you over for numerous reasons.” I said numerous reasons? With his unwillingness to state the reason for his stop, I stated, “Saying numerous reasons is not an answer.” He then finally stated, “I pulled you over because you have one of your rear license plate bulbs out.” I stated, “I don’t think that reason will last very long.” He became quite upset and said, “well I have you for ‘following to close’ too. Then stated, “do you have anything else to add?” I said no. He then asked again if I had anything to add. I said no again. He then walked back to his cruiser.
My wife and I waited. Other police cars pulled up and I noticed red beams shining inside my car, bouncing this way and that. They were moving so much the first thought was reflections from passing cars. No, I realized I was being targeted and stuck both hands up and out the driver’s side window. I held them there for about 1 minute before a deputy approached and opened my door yelling at me to get out. The door was pulled so hard it bounced back and shut in my face. Even though the door had closed the deputy continued to yell, “Get out of the car.” I refused saying I wasn’t moving my hands. The deputy reopened the door easier this time and then yelled at me to step out. I did. Faced away and then backed up towards them. Then stepped to the right and went to my knees. Two officers took my hands behind me and handcuffed me. One deputy pulled my gun from my hip holster. The original deputy took me to his car putting me in the back saying I was arrested for being an *******. From the back of the deputy’s car I watched as 3 deputies converged on my wife. They no longer had guns drawn and begin to question her. I watched as deputies started to look into small black books. From my wife I understand that they started questioning her about if the clip had been in the gun. She also has said they told her open carry was illegal in Washington and that the clip cannot be as close to the gun as I kept it, so I was breaking the law anyway. During this time the original deputy came back, opened the door, said I was also under arrest for reckless driving and then closed the door. I watched as one deputy cycled my handgun through about 10 times. After about 10 minutes the original deputy was heard asking for another deputies phone. He said he wanted to make sure the jail was willing to accept. In about 15 or 20 minutes the deputy got back in and I was driven off to the jail. Along the way the officer said, so do you just hate cops or something? I said I don’t hate police, but the ones acting outside law are not police. He started with the name-calling, Rambo, Constitutionalist, and *******. I said I may be a Constitutionalist but I am not the one that lied. He asked how he had lied. I stated the reckless driving charge. He said “Yes, but guess what, your wife told me that you only took the clip out when I went to pull you over.” I said again, you are a liar. He then bragged that with that he had probable cause that the gun had been loaded, saying, I just love getting guns away from guys like you. I said, maybe one day you will have everyone disarmed. He said that was the idea. He took me to the Spokane County Jail. I was taken inside the building. The original deputy told the jailers I was Rambo. The jail officers continued on that line and asked if I was from Hayden, Idaho. An older jail officer was the only one that didn’t get in on the action. I followed him around the corner where I was asked to stand against the wall. I did. I was told to take off my shoes and socks. At this point the older man asked what was wrong with my feet. I have a fungal infection on the tops of my feet. He asked the nurse to look at it. The original deputy and the others jailers laughed, is that all over your body? For me, that was the end. I had been pulled over and given bogus reasons, arrested by an officer that admitted to lying, and was now subject to 5 to 7 men's and one woman's verbal taunts. I stopped answering any questions. They then said, oh great we’ve got another one. Let’s see if he can last longer then the one that lasted 7 days. They then proceed to prepare me for going into the holding cell. While waiting a jailer started saying how he was watching cops last night and there was a scene where an officer walked up to a car and was just shot for no reason. I stated, “And you think that must be me, huh?” Shortly afterward I was taken to the holding cell. As I listened from the cell they started saying that I had said I wanted to shoot an officer. One lady, agreeing with the other men, “Yeah that sounds like what I heard.” The kind older jailer stopped by and asked me again if I wanted to just be booked in so I could go upstairs to a bed, and then see a judge in the morning. I said I felt all the charges were illegal and just wanted to see a judge as quickly as possible and that I didn’t really care where I was being held. Later I heard the sheriff’s deputy that brought me in talking with the jailers. He walked down to my holding cell, telling me, “I’ve got five guys out here that say you threatened my life. Now, I’ve got you for a felony.” He tapped the glass of the cell door I was locked behind and said, “you ain’t so tough without your gun now are you?”
The question:
Is it possible to stand up to our second amendment rights without compromising our conscience and beliefs and still protect our families and stay out of jail. From the experience that my husband and I had on the 16th of this month I am skeptical. It seems that the only way it to stand up for the second amendment is to end up breaking the law, or get severely harassed.
The incident:
I Am Finished
Updated 11 pm Dec. 18th below
At around 8:30 pm on Thursday, December 16th the wife and I left Pullman, WA on the way to Omak, WA. The quickest way to do this is by passing through the west end of Spokane and then out highway 2. I, as per usual, had my handgun holstered on my hip with the clip between my legs. The reason the clip was not in the gun is because without a CPL the gun must be unloaded when in a vehicle, RCW 9.41.050 -- minus a few exceptions, RCW 9.41.060. As we started up highway 195 and neared Spokane the highway turns into a divided highway with two lanes of traffic in both directions with left turns allowed across the middle. At around 9:30 pm, while heading north bound in the right lane of the highway a Spokane sheriff’s deputy pulls out a little way in front of me, coming from my left. He moves directly into the right lane and gets up to speed. This left me probably 20 car lengths away from him, both of us in the right lane. I had cruise control on at the 60mph speed limit. The officer was pulling away until he started to come upon two slower moving vehicles. One was in the right lane and one in the left lane, (the one in the left lane was farther ahead). As the deputy caught up to the one in the right lane he moved into the left lane. I stayed in the right lane longer, because the officer had slowed down slightly and was only staying even with the slower moving vehicle in the right lane. It finally looked like the deputy was going to pass this vehicle and so I went to the left lane as well behind the officer. As soon as I did the officer started to slow down. He slowed to almost 40, during which I tried to slow down fast enough to allow for following distance. I was about to move back into the right lane when the deputy turned on his left turn signal. Seeing this I stayed in the left lane, waiting for it to clear. He then slowed to about 30 before moving into the left turn lane. As he moved to the left lane I accelerated into the now open left lane. I passed the slower moving vehicle in the right lane and then turned into the right lane in front of him. As I looked in the rearview mirror while turning into the right lane, I noticed the deputy get back on the highway. He slowly caught up to me and moved into the right lane directly behind me. Knowing it was a deputy I slowed slightly and waited. We traveled like this for about 3 miles, (we went back earlier today and measured the distance). At about 3 miles the deputy turned on his overheads. I pulled to the shoulder and stopped. I reached down and unlatched the lap belt and pulled out my wallet. I got my drivers license out and put both hands on the steering wheel. The officer approached from the driver’s side. I had the window rolled down and he immediately asked for license, registration and proof of insurance. I had my license in my hands and I reached up to my visor for the license and proof of insurance. He was shining his flashlight down at my holstered handgun and said, “And since you have a handgun let’s not do any quick movements.” I said I wouldn’t and that I would leave my hands in the open. I reached out the window and handed the officer the three documents. He leaned in closer and shined his light between my legs at the guns clip. I left my hands on the steering wheel. He then asked for a permit for the gun. I said a permit was not needed. He asked again for a permit, I again stated I don't need a permit. I then asked why he hadn’t told my why I was pulled over. He said, “Because you didn’t ask me.” I asked what the reason for the stop was for. He didn’t answer me. I asked again saying law requires you inform me of the reason for your stop. He plainly took offense to this question and stated, “I pulled you over for numerous reasons.” I said numerous reasons? With his unwillingness to state the reason for his stop, I stated, “Saying numerous reasons is not an answer.” He then finally stated, “I pulled you over because you have one of your rear license plate bulbs out.” I stated, “I don’t think that reason will last very long.” He became quite upset and said, “well I have you for ‘following to close’ too. Then stated, “do you have anything else to add?” I said no. He then asked again if I had anything to add. I said no again. He then walked back to his cruiser.
My wife and I waited. Other police cars pulled up and I noticed red beams shining inside my car, bouncing this way and that. They were moving so much the first thought was reflections from passing cars. No, I realized I was being targeted and stuck both hands up and out the driver’s side window. I held them there for about 1 minute before a deputy approached and opened my door yelling at me to get out. The door was pulled so hard it bounced back and shut in my face. Even though the door had closed the deputy continued to yell, “Get out of the car.” I refused saying I wasn’t moving my hands. The deputy reopened the door easier this time and then yelled at me to step out. I did. Faced away and then backed up towards them. Then stepped to the right and went to my knees. Two officers took my hands behind me and handcuffed me. One deputy pulled my gun from my hip holster. The original deputy took me to his car putting me in the back saying I was arrested for being an *******. From the back of the deputy’s car I watched as 3 deputies converged on my wife. They no longer had guns drawn and begin to question her. I watched as deputies started to look into small black books. From my wife I understand that they started questioning her about if the clip had been in the gun. She also has said they told her open carry was illegal in Washington and that the clip cannot be as close to the gun as I kept it, so I was breaking the law anyway. During this time the original deputy came back, opened the door, said I was also under arrest for reckless driving and then closed the door. I watched as one deputy cycled my handgun through about 10 times. After about 10 minutes the original deputy was heard asking for another deputies phone. He said he wanted to make sure the jail was willing to accept. In about 15 or 20 minutes the deputy got back in and I was driven off to the jail. Along the way the officer said, so do you just hate cops or something? I said I don’t hate police, but the ones acting outside law are not police. He started with the name-calling, Rambo, Constitutionalist, and *******. I said I may be a Constitutionalist but I am not the one that lied. He asked how he had lied. I stated the reckless driving charge. He said “Yes, but guess what, your wife told me that you only took the clip out when I went to pull you over.” I said again, you are a liar. He then bragged that with that he had probable cause that the gun had been loaded, saying, I just love getting guns away from guys like you. I said, maybe one day you will have everyone disarmed. He said that was the idea. He took me to the Spokane County Jail. I was taken inside the building. The original deputy told the jailers I was Rambo. The jail officers continued on that line and asked if I was from Hayden, Idaho. An older jail officer was the only one that didn’t get in on the action. I followed him around the corner where I was asked to stand against the wall. I did. I was told to take off my shoes and socks. At this point the older man asked what was wrong with my feet. I have a fungal infection on the tops of my feet. He asked the nurse to look at it. The original deputy and the others jailers laughed, is that all over your body? For me, that was the end. I had been pulled over and given bogus reasons, arrested by an officer that admitted to lying, and was now subject to 5 to 7 men's and one woman's verbal taunts. I stopped answering any questions. They then said, oh great we’ve got another one. Let’s see if he can last longer then the one that lasted 7 days. They then proceed to prepare me for going into the holding cell. While waiting a jailer started saying how he was watching cops last night and there was a scene where an officer walked up to a car and was just shot for no reason. I stated, “And you think that must be me, huh?” Shortly afterward I was taken to the holding cell. As I listened from the cell they started saying that I had said I wanted to shoot an officer. One lady, agreeing with the other men, “Yeah that sounds like what I heard.” The kind older jailer stopped by and asked me again if I wanted to just be booked in so I could go upstairs to a bed, and then see a judge in the morning. I said I felt all the charges were illegal and just wanted to see a judge as quickly as possible and that I didn’t really care where I was being held. Later I heard the sheriff’s deputy that brought me in talking with the jailers. He walked down to my holding cell, telling me, “I’ve got five guys out here that say you threatened my life. Now, I’ve got you for a felony.” He tapped the glass of the cell door I was locked behind and said, “you ain’t so tough without your gun now are you?”
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