2nd/3rd gen colts

Ok I looked at black manual and it says exactly what you said. I am definitely going to find out tommorow what type of agreement Colt Industries had w/ Colt black powder arms and...and why they could use, confuse, abuse, the consumer ...selling them as "Authenic" Colts . Sam is rolling in his grave right now- I'm certain.

WB Hickup Gonna grab a beer on all this! Cheers:mad:.
 
Actually when the third gens first came out they copied the Colt pamphlet word for word including warranty information. Colt put out a disclaimer saying they would not warranty or repair a third gen.
 
Hardy said:
So ...Colt gave them the right to to use COLT and also put Samuel Colt Address NY on gun? There has to be some type of agreement there or ????
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Thats's what I said in post #9

Fingers McGee said:
Signature Series models were made in Brooklyn, NY by John Jovino and Co. under the trade name Colt Blackpowder Arms Company that was a special licensing agreement with Colt's. Colt's had nothing to do with the Sig series guns.
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I know Fingers. I done finished my beer, might get a 2nd. Yall want one? Well, originally I thought they were uberti and inspected by colt reps in London --Where did I get that from? But at least there was some agreement to use the Colt trademark name. They are pretty though. Why didn't they put out a 4th. Probably didn't see enough demand in competition with Italy---I guess.
 
I don't believe this keeps getting rehashed over and over.

2nd gen C series were made at COLT. Colt used raw barrels and cylinders from Uberti. All other parts came from North America. All machining and finish work done at the blue dome. It's a dancing pony!:eek:

2nd gen F series, same parts but work done by Lou Imperato company in NYC with inspections by Colt employees. Marketed and lettered by COLT. It's still a dancing pony.:D

3rd gens F series, same parts from Uberti plus hand grips. All other parts, final machining and finish work done by Colt Black Powder Arms Co. (Lou Imperato) UNDER LICENSE from COLT. This pony can't dance, but it's still a pony:D

All of the above is well documented in several books available today. If you have an interest in the 2nd or 3rd gen get a copy of Dennis Russell's book "Percussion Colt Revolvers The second Generation".:)
 
One thing should be mentioned---The 3rd comes in gray box and if inlay is not cracked---it's good and what makes it even better is if you have the white shipping box:D They are getting fewer. I did see a RE Lee in all its boxes for just over $1000.00 on Guns International. That is a 2nd and probably good deal for collector.
 
That's the first I've heard of Colt doing anything to a sig series.
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This is a copy of my letter to the company when I sent my 3rd Model back for work.

The bastards reblued my pistol, in doing so polished off the cylinder scenes and the barrel markings.

I regret not sending the thing back for replacement as they ruined it.


Colt Black Powder Arms Company (CBAC) 29-Jul-99
110 8th Street
Brooklyn New York 11215
(718)499-4678


Gentlemen:

Per telephone conversation with J.D. Cabrera:

I am returning this Colt 3rd Model Dragoon , serial number xxxxxx for warranty work. Enclosed is my sales invoice, dated 22 June 99.

Problems:

I am having misfires and hangfires with the pistol. #10 Remington and CCI caps would not fit the nipples. #11 CCI and Remington would. I seated the #11 as deep as I could on the nipples. Unfortunately, I would pull the trigger and get a misfire. In one case the pistol misfired on all six cylinders. Then as each cylinder was rotated for the second attempt, the cylinders fired correctly. I think the hammer is seating the cap. Maybe the hammer nose is too short. The hammer nose is indented with the nipple pattern. Maybe it is too soft. Maybe that is contributing to excessive head space. Or maybe there is a nipple problem.

I have cylinder throw-by on this pistol. The cylinder stop is not always catching the cylinder and it goes past the 12 OC position.

The spring comes off the hand and spring assembly. Is this normal? With my other pistols, these are not separable.

Per J.D. Install a taller front sight for $25.00. This pistol shoots about 2 feet high at 25 yards. Please install a tall front sight, one that I can file down to get a correct zero at 25 yards.
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Dang.... Well, I guess now we need to discuss if anyone cares to, the quality and reliability of shootin them or the collector that never fired his or hers. I had an 1860 Army that I fired and shot great compared to the others. But I had an 1851 Navy 3rd that had the prettiest grips in the world made out of wood but couldn't hit a can at 15 ft. Um...
 
Slamfire

The letter you posted explains a lot. You sent your gun back to Colt Black Powder Firearms which is an entirely different entity than Colt.
As Fingers, Hawg and MCB pointed out the third gens were not manufactured by Colt and are not recognised as Colts. They were manufactured by Lou Imperato (also the founder of Henry Firearms) in Brooklyn, NY. Interesting is that Lou made most of the 2nd gens also but those were inspected by Colt and therefore recognised and warrented by them.
 
denster is right.. The 3rd gen colts came w/ black manual and a warranty only by them-- Colt Black Powder Firearms. But, they do have colt stamped on them and are out of production. That is where I see some value in them, not to shoot but collect. As for example, the Marine 7.5 inch dragoon w/gold cylinder, screws, and loading lever, less than 1000 were made. How many did the Italians make in the last 12 years? But...I thought Laugh-In would outlive HeeHaw..so what do I know:D
 
Hardy said:
But...I thought Laugh-In would outlive HeeHaw..so what do I know
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Ha Ha, that's a good one.

Hardy said:
we need to discuss if anyone cares to, the quality and reliability of shootin them or the collector that never fired his or hers
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The 3rd gens have more quality control issues. These never had a finial inspection by Colt.

It's my understanding that Lou was a wheeler dealer and as many revolvers went out the back door as the front door. Repeat sales and quality was not at the top of the list.

My 3rd gens all have a great finish but most needed some finial fitting to make them 100%. All are good shooters with a tune up.
 
I have one (3rd)1849 pocket left that is PURE coated with silverplating(backstrap/trigger guard) Even though there is some flaking, it is a showpiece to most.It's gorgeous. Not everyone critiques these or has the info or knowledge about these 3rds that you have. That is why I think these postings are useful to the interested collector investing. The other 3rd 49 appeared to be nickel plated. I think right now in 2011, the collector is looking for these that are still in a perfect no crack liner. The liners gave way to many since they were light cardboard w/scant of felt? And possibly Wd 40 or other lubicants dissolved the cardboard or just clumsy handling. But the ones that are not cracked in that gray box, that has colt manual along with white shipping box should be a must for serious collecters to demand when shopping for collectble BP revolvers.
WBH
 
So to reiterate and also forget the arguments over whether they are true colts or not, is too determine their value and future value. They are out of production guns that have colt stamped on them. I just want to reinforce investment value to those interested in buying-- to make sure those boxes are not cracked and shipping box/ manual comes to.
 
And one more thing before my stupi wind gives out and I'll leave yu alone for awhile.

I remember being about 7 years old getting a Mattel six shooter that looked just like the real McCoy that even had rotating cylinder where you put brass cartridges that spring loaded a grey bullet and a stick on cap. I talked w/ some older folks:D and everyone had one. They all said they lost their gray bullets /just like I did/ and no one still has them. I haven't checked internet on these but the holsters were great they remember. I think they were called "fanners." Does anyone still have theirs? I bet if you had one still in box w/papers / holster --you'd have a real pricy piece:D
 
Okay, I talked w/ retired gentleman that worked for colt and was instrumental in the licensed company Colt Blackpowder Arms. He said that this company was licensed to build the 3rd gen colts/ assembled in Brookland and everygun was inspected by Colt International (of course parts came from Italy as so did for the 2nd gens) before they were stamped Colt. Colt kept inventory and did not let one go out without Colt inspection .
 
Besides spelling Brooklyn incorrectly, your 'inside information' flies in the face of this quote from the article "History of Colt reproductions' by Dennis Adler.

"Imperato organized the Colt Blackpowder Arms Company in Brooklyn, New York in 1993. A year later, the 3rd Generation Colt Blackpowder Signature Series was introduced under a licensing agreement with Colt's Manufacturing Company, Inc. Under this new "licensing" arrangement, Imperato not only manufactured the 3rd Generation black powder revolvers, he was also responsible for quality control, final inspection, marketing, advertising, sales, distribution and shipping to distributors or customers."

Ref: https://www.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/POWDER/MBPHistoryOfColtBlack.pdf
 
Well,I apoligize for my spelling since I only type with one finger. I was just telling you what a retired man from that company by the name of( K. England) told me. Maybe you are right. But he told me that they were inspected by Colt. I wasn't there. I don't know. In fact, the Colt Handgun book says the 3rds were all made by Uberti. But, they are in the colt book as being colts.
 
Thanks for the pic and add for the mattel fanner:D I want it.

Well, as far as getting my chain jerked, won't be the first or probably the last. Just relaying info. As I said, I wasn't there. I rely on all of you for accurate info. And I believe you. I guess, it is up to the collector, hobbyist, shooter etc to decide what they are. Thank You:)
WBH
 
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