.270 vs .30-06

A .270 of most any brand will shoot custom ammo like a varmint rifle, and that's how it should be treated-like a varmint rifle. If you've got plenty of room to run a blood trail, fine. The bigger hole and energy of the .30 cannot be denied. I was extremely proud of one of the first Ruger SS .270's to be sold around here in 1990. I have a long but great horror story of it posted on here somewhere. I got rid of my .270 as fast as I could. Naturally, I traded for one of my 7mm's- never had any regrets.

People will lambaste me for saying this, but I'll bet my short hairs they don't hunt in thick mountain terrain or crowded Eastern bottom woodlands.:eek: If you want to stay out of this stupid argument, get a cheaper-to-shoot .308 with nearly identical performance. When they tell you their .270 is much flatter shooting, ask them over to watch a few episodes of "Top Sniper" on Hulu. Let them pick out the rifles that are .270's. Nobody argues with military success.

-7-
 
Well, my experience is exactly the opposite. Everything I've shot with my .270 has been drt...no blood trailing required. Did have to track one a friend shot right behind the front leg with his 7 mag though.

Does that mean either is better than the other? I personally don't think so.
 
A bigger hole (we do realize that it's bigger by .031", right?) and more energy might be undeniable but the affect thereof certainly is not.

A .308 bullet has an area of .0745", a .277 bullet of .06026.

That's a difference of .01424 square inches and only .0155 around the bullet.

That's like adding a period (yes . <- one of those) around the edge.

Energy doesn't make much difference at all. The difference in energy is whether your bullet is 3 inches or only 2 inches buried in the tree on the other side.

Besides, none of that energy difference or diameter is going to make a gut shot more deadly or a double lung less deadly.
 
Noise is the point

30-06 is more versatile, you can go from 125gr to 220 gr (Squirrel to Buffalo) and it does better in normal barrel lengths (58-60cm) whereas 270 is limited between 130gr to 150gr and needs 65cm barrels to do really well. So if it shall be either one as a one for all, 30-06 makes the race by far for me. I have one.

But the "best" caliber for me is the 308, why? Gas pressure levels at the muzzle. Very very low due to small case and aggressive powders. Relevant? Yes! Less noise for me and my dog. Even with earmuffs a rifle can/will damage your hearing. And when hunting you are likely to only have a thin less effective muff on and no additional plugs. Also very versatile and very accurate.

Hope that helped.
PB
 
Makes me wonder what all the debate is sometimes with regard to "flatness"
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"Flatness" matters little on a perfect, no-wind- no external bullet influences- day.

I don't hunt, so energy at the "target" matters little to me, it is everything to the hunter.

Bullet drop is easily, and accurately, compensated for with a ballistics program if the necessary parameters are known, with the elevation turret.

However, the "flat-shooting" aspect becomes increasingly more important on a windy day, when the bullet that gets to the target sooner- and has a higher BC to cheat the wind- has a distinct advantage.

None of this matters much at short ranges. It becomes exponentially more important as range increases, bullet speeds drop and external factors influence bullet trajectory. For those that never shoot beyond a few hundred yards, it's a non-issue.
 
30-06 is more versatile, you can go from 125gr to 220 gr (Squirrel to Buffalo) and it does better in normal barrel lengths (58-60cm) whereas 270 is limited between 130gr to 150gr and needs 65cm barrels to do really well. So if it shall be either one as a one for all, 30-06 makes the race by far for me. I have one.
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From a hunting perspective this is all outdated, incorrect or irrelevent. For the record I favor the 30-06 simply because it is what I started with back in the 1970's and there is simply not enough difference with modern loadings to matter, certainly not enough to have both and I'm not selling my 30-06's.

There are a lot of the misconceptions today because the original 30-06 hunting loadings were almost exclusively either 180 or 220 gr bullets. The 30-06 was tradionally loaded very conservatively for many reasons. By the time the 270 was introduced gun and ammo makers felt more comfortable loading newer chamberings hotter and up to their true potential. During the 1930's the 270 with 130 gr bullets did offer flatter trajectory and with bullet technology of the 1930's the heavier 30-06 did offer an advantage on the largest game.

But a lot has changed in 80 years and most shooters are still repeating things that haven't been true in years. So what if the 30-06 is available in 200 gr+ bullets. They aren't needed anymore. With modern loadings and bullets a 150 gr bullet from either can be loaded to over 3000 fps, and do it from a 22" barrel. You can get 3100 fps from either from longer barrels. Both have almost exactly the same trajectory and both will kill any animal in North America equally well. In 2012 there is absolutely no reason to load a bullet heavier than 180 gr in a 30-06. There isn't an animal in the world that will tell the difference between .031" in bullet diameter. In fact the slightly longer .277 bullet will likely out penetrate the .308 bullet. A bullet gets penetration from sectional density more than bullet weight. A 160 gr 270 bullet will equal or outpenetrate a 180 gr 30-06 bullet if shot at the same speed. Which they can be.

In 2012 they are equals in every way for hunting. As a long range target rifle the 30-06 gets the nod only because there is more data, more research that has been done with that round and a shooter does not have to do as much R&D to get success. But with the right loads and right bullets I have no doubt a 270 could equal or even beat a 30-06 at extreme distance.
 
Aw, now, Para Bellum,the best squirrel load for an '06 is a double-ought buck ahead of five grains of pistol powder. :) An 80-grain pistol bullet at around 4,000 ft/sec is good for ruination of jackrabbits, I long ago discovered. 110-grain Hornadys always worked for coyotes.

Most any 150-grain bullet will do mean things to Bambi to some 500 yards, from family experience over the years...
 
I favor the 30-06 although I've owned both because of the wider range of bullets available and generally the cheaper prices for them than the 270. I like the 06's better resistance to wind drift at long range. In addition, I also load for my M1 Garand, M1A, and M1 Carbine so I already have a supply of 110grn, 147grn 150grn, 168grn and 177grn bullets I can use. Other than that, the 06 has an advantage if shooting larger, dangerous game because it can push 180 to 220 grn bullets.
 
For me, I the '06 gets the edge if I intend to hunt game where there is a legitimate need for bullets heavier than 140 grains. And it's not because you can't kill an elk or moose with a .270. In my experience, the perfect shot or situation doesn't always present itself in the real world so I like a little room for error. I'm not talking about rump shots either, just a little edge and the .30-06 has it on bigger game. On close in shots, it seems the '06 will render less meat blood shot and damaged on less than perfect hits-a real concern for some hunters east of the Mississippi. On critters the size of a large mule deer and on down, there's little if any difference in killing effectiveness between the two.

Just my thoughts.

:)

Bruce
 
Elmer Keith still lives!

Math ain't everything. There's always been a ton of difference for me. Shoot what you shoot best. As for me, I'm a7mmnut.:cool:

<7><))))))))))))))))))))
 
I have been hunting over sage brush.
I shot a couple deer over 500 yards.
I shot a couple deer under 400 yards.
But almost all the deer I shot were between 400 and 500 yards.
That is because I stalk to, or wait while intercepting until the deer is between 400 and 500 yards.

I like the 130 gr Ballistic tip 270 bullet for lung shots.

The 270 shoots flatter than the 30-06.
If both rifles are zero'd at 200 yards, the 270 needs less hold over or adjustment on the elevation knob.
 
If zeroed at 200, per my Sierra book, the 300-yard drop for a 130-grain .270 is about five inches. For a 150-grain '06, about six inches. (That's from memory; my Sierra book is 1,400 miles away at the moment. :D)

My holdover at 500 yards for a 150-grain from my '06 is about four feet. I had no trouble hitting the plate, first time out, guesstimating holdover with my usual 200-yard zero. IOW, not worth worrying about.
 
If zeroed at 200, per my Sierra book, the 300-yard drop for a 130-grain .270 is about five inches. For a 150-grain '06, about six inches. (That's from memory; my Sierra book is 1,400 miles away at the moment. )

My holdover at 500 yards for a 150-grain from my '06 is about four feet. I had no trouble hitting the plate, first time out, guesstimating holdover with my usual 200-yard zero. IOW, not worth worrying about.
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My thoughts as well...in a practical sense I don't see enough difference to worry about.
 
If the 270 with 26" barrel and 130 gr boat tail is driven at 65ksi the trajectory will only be a small amount better than a 30-36 with 26" barrel and a 130 gr boat tail driven a 60kpsi.

The 270 will start at 3190 fps and be down to 2020 fps at 550 yards [8 moa correction point]

But the 30-06 starts at 3280 fps and is down to 1895 at 550 yards [8 moa correction point]

This means the 30-06 kicks more but has less power at range.
 
My father always loaded his '06 to GI specs, using the Hornady 150-grain Spire Point. Witnesses related the stories of observing him call the shot for one-shot kills (yeah, more than one) out around 500 yards. And that was way before laser range-finders.

If you know what you're doing, it doesn't really matter a lot what you use...
 
The .270 WIN is a wonderful open country hunting cartridge.

Target shooting ...... not so much.

Anyone here ever tried the .270 out past 400, 500...?
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Yes.

Works on deer.

@Brian P: colorful charts, but it looks as if you used a flat based 150gr .270 WIN bullet in your example: There are boat tailed .277 150's with G1 BC's over .500 .....


Makes me wonder what all the debate is sometimes with regard to "flatness"
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For most folks, it is akin to arguing how many angels may dance on the head of a pin ....... for me, it is important, in that with my rig, any good sized deer that appears on the hayfield in front of me and begins feeding* is mine if I want and he gets within 500.......

At 500 yards, even with 9x magnification, 6-8 inches more holdover is harder to judge .... and the rangefinding has to be much more exact...... with my rifle and load, my bullet will drop just over 18 inches ( top of the back to the bottom of the heart on a large deer ) between 400 and 500..... zeroed for 300, I can use the horizontal crosshair to underline the deer's chest at to 250 (poi will be +4" at 100, +4 3/4" at 200, and begins falling to dead on at 300, 11" low at 400 (spine hold), and between 400 and 500, I'll need between 6" and 18" holdover- easily figured using the animal's chest as a guide.

With an -06, and 150 grain bullets, I'd want target turrets or a mildot scope- which would make eyes open, snap shots at short range harder.....


.... I can't speak to wind drift, as I won't take long shots on game if there is any wind to deal with- I don't have that skillset.

I don't believe there is any inherent accuracy edge of one cartridge over the other.
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Some are (shorter, fatter cartridges of modest velocity are inherently more accurate than longer, hypervelocity cartidges.... they are more efficient, too, allowing more bangs for the buck) ..... and benchrest shooters have proven it ...... but to most people, benchrest guys are "preoccupied with inconsequential increments"..... much the same way as high plains hayfield hunters, or southern beanfield guys are.......

A .270 of most any brand will shoot custom ammo like a varmint rifle, and that's how it should be treated-like a varmint rifle.
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While it does a fine job on varmints when loaded with 90 to 110 grain varmint bullets, it is not ideally suited for that- pink mist is pink mist, and a .223 will make it at 1/4 the cost..... plus 300 rounds of 55gr @ 3000 f/sec won't make your shoulder nearly as sore as 300 rounds of 110gr @3000 f/sec .... I know this from experience...... though that will sure sharpen your skills for deer season ....... prairie dogs @ 300 yards from field positions is good practice for an animal with a 12"x18" vital zone.....

If you've got plenty of room to run a blood trail, fine. The bigger hole and energy of the .30 cannot be denied.
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I have yet to see a deer hit well with a .270WIN that went very far .... then again, "far" can be a subjective term....... I also have yet to see a deer that was hit with high powered rifle bullet that anybody could tell what diameter the bullet was that struck it, unless they found the bullet (assuming it held together and did not exit) and measured the un-expanded portion of it.


Were I to take up a "long range" target game, I would not choose either the .270 or the -06 ..... I'd want somthing more efficient that would not beat the hell out of me on the bench......



*with a flight time exceeding .5 sec, you have to be sure your target does not move: when deer are feeding, even if they go on alert, the head will come up, and they will look for the threat, but the chest won't move....
 
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