26 Nosler claims: do you believe them?

Yeah, Brian, everything you say is true, but I have to modify or disagree somewhat.....

First, the part about the vital zone not being round - you suggest that works in your favor, which it can, but it can also work against you on the edges of the zone which are "less than round" if you will, rather than "more than round", as you seem to assume will always be the case.

Next, if one is after pronghorn or up, what you say is true - but what about African Dik-dik or Duiker? They might have an 8" wide vital zone.

Finally, most importantly - and this isn't set in stone by any means but it makes sense - the way *I* personally do things is this when it comes to PBR/MPBR, and target size: I take whatever the vital zone/ target size is actually, and reduce it by 2" (1" on all sides), to account for field conditions. There's theoretical target size at the bench; then there's actual field condition target size. I define "field conditions target size" as actual for the game sought less 2", to account for a tiny bit of human error. You still have to make an excellent / nearly perfect shot if it's long range, but this makes it at least more realistic and more ethical -it safely allows for a slight bit of parallax error due to a weird hold and/or fast shot, and slightly bad hold.

So if say, a moose / elk / deer / pronghorn target size is 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 at their smallest points on the circle (i.e. plus or minus 8 / 7 / 6 / 5), I subtract to 2" to determine my PBR/MPBR for a given rifle/load, or 14 / 12 / 10 / 8 (or plus/minus 7 / 6 / 5 / 4). So I'd find my + or - 7 for moose, down to + or - 4 for pronghorn. BWT, I am a big fan of the PBR / MPBR concept & use.

But regardless, I suppose you're right that their claims aren't actually "fibbing" - they do have a basis in fact; I was wrong. They're perhaps puffery, but well within the range of acceptable puffery for North American large game, rather than fibbery. (unlike most gun industry claims, ha ha)
 
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The trouble with the "somebody does it" or "what about if..." Is that there's no implication of those things in the claims.

It's an advertising gimmick. Claims shouldn't depend on extraordinary circumstances unless they're specified.

Like I said, a .308 can hold dead on from 0-1000.

Don't tell me you need a 20' target or you don't know anybody who does it. That doesn't matter.
 
Exactly. As I say, their claims are demonstrably true! **

**provided your game is always giraffe.

Kinda like those car dealer commercials with a guy talking 400 words a minute for 10 seconds of disclaimers at the end, un-promising everything they just promised in the main commercial with the good ol' boy talking loud and slow. :)
 
Well Brian you can either be 5" high at 200 yards or you can be 8" high at 210 to hit a target at 415 yards. 8" high is what you need for a 415 yard zero, so if you aren't turning knobs and you zero for the farthest point you can possibly shoot while hunting then there's a good chance you'll miss or worse at ranges less than 200 yards.

That is why zeroing for MPBR works well, it doesn't mean that you're slinging lead hoping if falls within a certain distance from point of aim. What it means is that you don't have to think so hard about things out to a certain range if you're a hunter. This doesn't mean that you can't or don't practice and employ a certain amount of other techniques such as turning a knob or holdover/under.

Just because you don't like it, understand it, want to use it, or any combination of all three doesn't mean it isn't for anyone else or doesn't work for other people.
 
The point is that the claim makes the round seem extraordinary. It isn't.

The claim relies on assumptions that are out of the norm and nonspecific.

No one would be impressed if they said "It's a .264Win Mag with a new name!", so they make extraordinary claims which rely on extraordinary circumstances, without specifying those circumstances, so that it sounds impressive.

In other words, the very fact that they rely on circumstances outside the norm to give their round the appearance of being outside the norm tells the discerning reader that round is in fact NOT outside the norm.

It's ordinary, with ordinary marketing spin.
 
Its a beltless .264 Win mag. Nothing special except it gets the name "Nosler." If they had left the Jeffrey full length and built a 6.5mm Rum, they whould have had something special.
 
My thing is if the .26 Nosler comes close to the claims in the real world on average it will be 200-300 fps faster than a .264 Win Mag. The plus side it fits in the same size action, the down side it'll probably be hard on barrels. However, if you're using it as a hunting rifle even if you send a few hundred rounds down range the barrel will probably last over 10 years before hunting accuracy goes away.

200-300 fps average above the factory standard 6.5 hotrod is pretty impressive and out of the ordinary in my book.
 
the down side it'll probably be hard on barrels. However, if you're using it as a hunting rifle even if you send a few hundred rounds down range the barrel will probably last over 10 years before hunting accuracy goes away.
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There's also the chance that rifles in the .26 Nosler could have some sort of treatment or coating to extend barrel life, from the factory.(or at least the option to do so) Cryogenically treated barrels, Chrome lined bores, or the new Melonite stuff, could extend the life of the .26 Nosler to the point that it'll last as many, if not more rounds than 'standard' well established hunting cartridges like .243 win, .270 Winchester, etc, with a typical 4140 chromemoly steel barrel.
That could be very marketable if taken advantage of. A 'Magnum' 6.5mm faster than the .264 win mag, with more energy and barrel life than the venerable .270 Winchester, could potentially be quite a seller.
 
I doubt it is faster than the win mag. The Win mag is one of the most underloaded cartridges I have ever seen. In many cases, it capable of 12 to 15% more velocity than published data.
 
26 Nosler has case capacity 93gr H20 and 264 mag has 82gr H20. I think their going to get it and wouldn't surprise me to see case necked up 7mm or 30 cal.

Negative side could be price of brass. When I first started buy Nosler 280AI it was little less than $1 per case now it's around $1.50 or little more and I think it's be $2.00 pretty quick.
 
Reynolds 357 I hear what your saying about the 264 win mag being under loaded. It's even like that in my reloading manual. When I see them showing that I can reach the same velocities with my .270 winchester I do indeed find myself scratching my head a little bit (that being said I do so love my .270....I've often seen it described as the cartridge that hasn't figured out its not a magnum - you get a lot of bang for your buck - quite a bit flatter shooting than the 30-06 with bullets of equal bc and quite a bit harder hitting than the .25-06.).
 
Also in regard to the implication that I am here to bash the round when I have no experience with it; that was not my intention, I have no issue with the round and were I to acquire a rifle chambered in it I would have a lot of fun with it I'm sure. My grievance is with what are plainly exagerated claims by nosler. Kind of reminds me of the hype surrounding the ".257 hot tamale" supposedly able to "hold on hair" to five hundred yards" and drop whatever it hits in its tracks every single time by virtue of being a magical "4000 fps" round that does what slower rounds never can (never mind that that ttsx is no where near 4000 fps at 500 yards)! I call bs
 
It's likely that they used best possible conditions to inflate their claims a bit, for marketing purposes, it doesn't seem that far off from being true.
Assuming you could load the cartridge to achieve 3210ft/lbs with a 95 grain V-max (.264 win mag data shows at least 3183ft/lbs with a heavier bullet) a long 26,28,30 inch test barrel could probably reasonably achieve that.

Shooting in fairly good conditions (2000ft alt, 85 degree air temp) you could potentially zero at 340 yards. With the V-max's advertised BC, my ballistic calculator is showing 4.11 inches high between 180 and 190 yards. And 4.81'' low at 410 yards, 5.66'' low at 420. Whenever I read about 'point blank range' I almost always seem to see 5'' high and low being used. If we use 5'' you could zero at 365 yards, and still be under 5'' high and under 5'' low at 430 yards. Most people don't like going over 3'' high, though.
 
Also in regard to the implication that I am here to bash the round when I have no experience with it; that was not my intention, I have no issue with the round and were I to acquire a rifle chambered in it I would have a lot of fun with it I'm sure. My grievance is with what are plainly exagerated claims by nosler.
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You weren't named specifically as a basher and it's not just you. There are people on every message board that gunpowder is the main topic poo-pooing the round but none of them have yet to pull the trigger on one. I doubt very seriously if Nosler is going to make wild claims that don't bare out on the cartridge. Nosler has always been a pretty good company that is responsive to the consumer base, the last thing they want is to make false claims. Doubtful that the profit margins they deal in are enough to take a hit on a poorly designed product and having the base turn on them.

LOL, one thing I doubt you see in the near future is an Hornady A-Max or other bullet offered unless it is reloaded. Nosler's success with the entire thing lies in getting the guns chambered and the cartridge out there for consumption. This is where there seems to be the biggest disconnect. It will be a flop if it remain proprietary and garners little more than wildcat following.

I admit to being somewhat enthralled with the round at the announcement but after thought and finding out more on the availability I don't see it taking off. Lets face it, the majority of people want to walk in and buy a box of cartridges to shoot, not sit at the bench and craft a round for it. Those same people are going to buy a box or two of $50.00 plus ammo for their $1,600.00 gun, sight it in and wait for two/three shots per season. Long term viability isn't achieved if sales don't demand it.

Nope, the success of the 26 Nosler is dependent of Remington, Winchester, Savage etc picking it up in their every man rifles. The if's, what's, can's and when's of the ballistics don't mean that much until that happens.
 
Yeah that sounds like an accurate prediction. It might be like those lazzeroni rounds and rifles...awesome setup but inaccessible to the average joe. It's cool to see that hornady is now making brass and loaded ammo for some of the weatherby cartridges, speaking of proprietary products becoming more available.
 
I don't even think the success of the .26 Nosler is dependent on any company but Nosler. Outside of the .257 and .300 Weatherby how many other rifle companies chamber Weatherby rounds or make the ammunition? Nosler for now will have a monopoly on the rifle and ammunition.

Cooper might pick it up as their rifles cost as much as most full blown custom rifles anyway. It'll never be a commercial success I'd bet, but for Nosler they might just gain an extra loyal customer base for a fast .264 caliber round. Just like Roy did with his Weatherby rifles, while other companies like Remington build them on occasion, most people go to the source when they want a Weatherby rifle.
 
Weatherby's success came at a different time and place. Times have changed since his beginnings. Were he to introduce his overbores today they would be received with the same skepticism, doubt and regard as the 26. Imagine someone bringing a new 300 that was better than the WM onto today's market in the same manner the 26 has been. TFL would be poo-pooing it just the same.

Having owned a few WBY guns, I don't find much in the positive for them to this day. You want to succeed and make a name for a product, you have to get it out for everyone.
 
WBY was not received well by the masses when Roy brought them out. Roy had a niche market for many years. WBY did not become mainstream until Roy released his cartridges to other manufacturers for rifle production. For many years, Roy was perfectly happy selling MarkV's that cost three times what a 700 cost and Vangards that cost 1.5X what a 700 cost.
 
My thing is if the .26 Nosler comes close to the claims in the real world on average it will be 200-300 fps faster than a .264 Win Mag.
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Big if. I have serious doubts. .264 win mag has case cap. of 82 gr of h2o, and it's a screamer - getting marginal returns off screamers takes a lot of powder, and this one ain't long enough to hold that much more powder I don't think.

Still, even if it's identical to the .264 Winmag, it has a valid raison d'etre with the beltless case. So 50 fps more alone would be gravy. Not to mention Nosler support in the form of high-quality rifles, brass, and Trophy Grade ammo.
 
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