Mike Irwin
Staff
"No, it means it should be loaded with 35 grains of Smokeless A, the only smokeless powder available to Winchcester at the time of its introduction. 30-30 the same. 30-40 US Army (Krag) as well. Winchester used the confusing (to us) nomenclature by following BP cartridge naming conventions, which was pretty much the only thing people used at the time since virtually ALL cartridges at that time were BP cartridges. And 25 WCF was already taken."
I've never heard of Smokeless A, but that may have been a commercial designation for the powder that UMC used in Winchester ammunition.
As originally loaded, .30-40 Krag ammunition was loaded with a short-lived smokeless powder (Ruby) by the Leonard Smokless Powder Company. That powder was found to be unsuitable as well as unstable, and the Lafflin & Rand Company helped reorganize both the company and the powder, eventually developing the WA powder.
WA didn't become the standard military powder until 1896, which means it could not have been the original powder for the .30 and .25 WCF cartridges.
Additionally, pretty much until the turn of the century ALL WA powder was earmarked for use by the military in .30-40 and 6mm Lee Navy ammunition.
Peyton Powder was also an early contender, both commercially and for military use (apparently considerable quantities were loaded in .30-40 Krag), but their plant went boom and they never really recovered.
DuPont was also an early contender in the military rifle powder market and would, over time, become the primary powder supplier to the US military.
Back to the powder used in the .30 and .25 WCF rounds...
Winchester and UMC (which worked with Winchester to develop the two rounds) held back introducing the smokeless rounds until 1895 because suitable propellants weren't available. Most of the smokeless production in the US was going to the military, and other domestically produced smokeless propellants were turning out to be unsuitable.
I've never been able to confirm this, but I've come to suspect that the original smokeless powder .30 and .25 WFC rounds were loaded with...
European powder, either Nobel's Ballistite or Wetteren from Belgium. At the time, these two powders were probably the best in the world. Lafflin & Rand originally entered negotiations with Nobel to produce Ballistite, but didn't because of the royalty costs.
In 1899, however, Lafflin & Rand introduced one of the most important sporting powders of all time -- Lightning. Within a couple of years it pushed just about every other powder out of the commercial market for loading rounds like the .30-30, .25-35, .303 Savage, .33 Winchester and many others.
Production was stopped in the run up to World War II and never restarted.
I've never heard of Smokeless A, but that may have been a commercial designation for the powder that UMC used in Winchester ammunition.
As originally loaded, .30-40 Krag ammunition was loaded with a short-lived smokeless powder (Ruby) by the Leonard Smokless Powder Company. That powder was found to be unsuitable as well as unstable, and the Lafflin & Rand Company helped reorganize both the company and the powder, eventually developing the WA powder.
WA didn't become the standard military powder until 1896, which means it could not have been the original powder for the .30 and .25 WCF cartridges.
Additionally, pretty much until the turn of the century ALL WA powder was earmarked for use by the military in .30-40 and 6mm Lee Navy ammunition.
Peyton Powder was also an early contender, both commercially and for military use (apparently considerable quantities were loaded in .30-40 Krag), but their plant went boom and they never really recovered.
DuPont was also an early contender in the military rifle powder market and would, over time, become the primary powder supplier to the US military.
Back to the powder used in the .30 and .25 WCF rounds...
Winchester and UMC (which worked with Winchester to develop the two rounds) held back introducing the smokeless rounds until 1895 because suitable propellants weren't available. Most of the smokeless production in the US was going to the military, and other domestically produced smokeless propellants were turning out to be unsuitable.
I've never been able to confirm this, but I've come to suspect that the original smokeless powder .30 and .25 WFC rounds were loaded with...
European powder, either Nobel's Ballistite or Wetteren from Belgium. At the time, these two powders were probably the best in the world. Lafflin & Rand originally entered negotiations with Nobel to produce Ballistite, but didn't because of the royalty costs.
In 1899, however, Lafflin & Rand introduced one of the most important sporting powders of all time -- Lightning. Within a couple of years it pushed just about every other powder out of the commercial market for loading rounds like the .30-30, .25-35, .303 Savage, .33 Winchester and many others.
Production was stopped in the run up to World War II and never restarted.
Showed him where he went wrong and got into the rifle fairly cheaply. The barrel is as shiny and a brand new dime. The barrel needs to be crowned but I haven't gotten around to doing that. I have two "BOBs", a Ruger #1 that is a tack driver with 100 gr. Norma ammo. I wonder when Norma dropped that stuff. One hundred and twenty rounds and the dies to reload the ammo came with the gun. Still have 106 of those rounds left. I shot a couple of five shot groups that were under a half inch. Never have tried to work up a load for that rifle. Another .257 "BOB is my Winchester M70 Featherweight. So far it hasn't shown me much regarding accuracy. Maybe when the range dries out later this year I'll see what I can do with it. I also have two Ruger #1Bs in 25-06. One is very accurate and the other so far is a dog. I've just been too busy working with a couple other cartridges to bother with the .25s.
