ligonierbill
New member
As a result of a thread that drifted to the 250 Savage, I reverted to habit and, realizing I didn't have one, bought one. So I'm soon to be the owner of 3 25 caliber deer rifles: 25-35, 250-3000, and 257 Roberts.
But first, a "heads up". If you are prone to communicating in a supercilious manner when encountering the use of jargon, please read no further. Because I will start with a reference, "A Classic Returns in .257 Bob", Dave Campbell, American Rifleman, July 19, 2013.
So what's in a name. If it's 25-35, it should mean it runs on 35 gr of black powder. Except, in 1895 when it was introduced alongside the 30-30, it was a smokeless round. My brother, who has about everything Winchester, has an original Model 94. Actually, that was the first I heard of it. Miroku makes a copy, albeit with side eject, rebounding hammer, and belt-and-suspenders safety. Not a pure copy, but I had to have one. The little carbine sends Hornady RN 117s at just over 2,300 fps. Certainly not fast by today's standards, but Winchester's trio of 25, 30, and 32 smokeless rounds was revolutionary in its day.
Now the 250-3000, a marketing term if there ever was one. If I understand correctly, Charles Newton designed it with a 100 gr bullet. Good round, but it wouldn't go 3,000 fps. So, they loaded an 87 gr pill and made their number. But in the field it was LTA (some jargon), and they went back to the 100 gr round. It may not be correct, but I think that's when they started calling it the 250 Savage. My dies and brass are due in today, and I won't have the rifle for awhile, but I am reading that some loaders are getting 3,000 out of 100 gr. bullets. I think I will stay with my 117 Sierras that I use in "Bob" (Bob is actually my rifle. Yes, yes, it's a 257 Roberts.) So, why would anyone get a 250 Savage, when Ned Robert's round (well, mostly his round) outruns it? Well, I've never seen a Savage 99 in the Roberts. It's the rifle in this case. Being a contrarian, I did not buy a 99, rather a Savage Model 20. It is labeled "250-3000".
Here's the story on "Bob". I started fooling with old Mausers a few years back. Not originals! No way; but you can still find "sporterized" rifles at decent prices. This one was a 1940 Borsigwalde that had the original laminated stock modified, and not badly either, original barrel and safety. I pulled the barrel, and, not ready to try my hand at that yet, sent the action to Shaw for a barrel and blueing. I was really thinking of a 25-06, but I was concerned about the cartridge length in the mag. Maybe an unnecessary concern, but I went with another classic, 257 Roberts. Since put a new stock on it, "windshield wiper" safety, decent Nikon scope, and she shoots very well. Those 117 Sierras go 2,870 over Reloder 22, and it's one of the rounds I am reworking with IMR-4955. Looks promising. Don't usually name my firearms, but these reborn Mausers have enough character to warrant it. So, it's Bob. Now, to be completely accurate, Ned Robert's wildcat had a 15 degree shoulder. The commercial cartridge named for him has 20 degrees. Reportedly, this is one round that benefits substantially from the Ackley Improved treatment, but I'm staying with what I have.
But first, a "heads up". If you are prone to communicating in a supercilious manner when encountering the use of jargon, please read no further. Because I will start with a reference, "A Classic Returns in .257 Bob", Dave Campbell, American Rifleman, July 19, 2013.
So what's in a name. If it's 25-35, it should mean it runs on 35 gr of black powder. Except, in 1895 when it was introduced alongside the 30-30, it was a smokeless round. My brother, who has about everything Winchester, has an original Model 94. Actually, that was the first I heard of it. Miroku makes a copy, albeit with side eject, rebounding hammer, and belt-and-suspenders safety. Not a pure copy, but I had to have one. The little carbine sends Hornady RN 117s at just over 2,300 fps. Certainly not fast by today's standards, but Winchester's trio of 25, 30, and 32 smokeless rounds was revolutionary in its day.
Now the 250-3000, a marketing term if there ever was one. If I understand correctly, Charles Newton designed it with a 100 gr bullet. Good round, but it wouldn't go 3,000 fps. So, they loaded an 87 gr pill and made their number. But in the field it was LTA (some jargon), and they went back to the 100 gr round. It may not be correct, but I think that's when they started calling it the 250 Savage. My dies and brass are due in today, and I won't have the rifle for awhile, but I am reading that some loaders are getting 3,000 out of 100 gr. bullets. I think I will stay with my 117 Sierras that I use in "Bob" (Bob is actually my rifle. Yes, yes, it's a 257 Roberts.) So, why would anyone get a 250 Savage, when Ned Robert's round (well, mostly his round) outruns it? Well, I've never seen a Savage 99 in the Roberts. It's the rifle in this case. Being a contrarian, I did not buy a 99, rather a Savage Model 20. It is labeled "250-3000".
Here's the story on "Bob". I started fooling with old Mausers a few years back. Not originals! No way; but you can still find "sporterized" rifles at decent prices. This one was a 1940 Borsigwalde that had the original laminated stock modified, and not badly either, original barrel and safety. I pulled the barrel, and, not ready to try my hand at that yet, sent the action to Shaw for a barrel and blueing. I was really thinking of a 25-06, but I was concerned about the cartridge length in the mag. Maybe an unnecessary concern, but I went with another classic, 257 Roberts. Since put a new stock on it, "windshield wiper" safety, decent Nikon scope, and she shoots very well. Those 117 Sierras go 2,870 over Reloder 22, and it's one of the rounds I am reworking with IMR-4955. Looks promising. Don't usually name my firearms, but these reborn Mausers have enough character to warrant it. So, it's Bob. Now, to be completely accurate, Ned Robert's wildcat had a 15 degree shoulder. The commercial cartridge named for him has 20 degrees. Reportedly, this is one round that benefits substantially from the Ackley Improved treatment, but I'm staying with what I have.
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