.25 acp head shot

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Yes, the .25 will kill a man if you sneak up on him and put the gun to the back or side of his head. But it's irrelevant to self defense which should be the concern here. Mafia hitmen and Stalin's killers have nothing to do with it. The Mafia killers used to favor ice picks for assassinations as well. This doesn't make it a good SD weapon. In self defense you're shooting at someone from the front.
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Good point, but let me fix that for you: In self defense you're shooting at someone from the front, who is already shooting at you. In the vast majority of cases, he will initiate hostilities; e.g., he gets the first shot.
So, by the very nature of the conflict, you start out at a distinct disadvantage--you may have one or more holes in you before you respond. Are you willing to voluntarily place yourself at a further disadvantage by carrying a sub-par caliber when you have the choice to do otherwise?

Think a bit about that.
 
-Carry a weapon or be defenseless.

-Carry the deadliest thing you can carry.

If you choose to carry a gun:

-Carry the most powerful caliber you can carry if you choose to carry a gun. When you are talking about handgun rounds and their various designs what this really means can get confusing.

Just step back and think about what actually stops somebody. Head shots are indeed great. But people misunderstand why they are great. Pretty much if you damage any part of the bad guy's brain it is bad news for him. The cerebrum is responsible for thinking and movement and it is the largest part of the brain. But you have to destroy a large portion of it if not all of it in order for the bad guy to stop moving instantly. And aiming for the cerebrum requires you to aim for the more angled portion of the skull and it leaves the lower brain intact to control the body and perhaps permit the attacker to fire their gun again via reflex or some similar action.

It has already been discussed that severing the spinal cord anywhere from the neck all the way to the top of the medulla oblongata will obviously cut the brain off from being able to control the rest of the body and will instantly stop the attacker. However that requires you to aim for the nose (if the bad guy is directly facing you and is looking straight at you). Or if the bad guy is looking to the left or right that will require you to aim for the ear canal. And on and on for all of the other orientations of the brain. On top of that it is a really small target located behind the tough, angled skull.

So pretty much if you do choose to shoot someone in the head you might as well pick a round that can penetrate the skull at as many angles as possible and destroy as much of the brain as possible. That is you can even effectively conceal a hand gun that carries that kind of caliber.

This is pretty much why you want to aim for the center of mass because it is hard to do things when you can't breathe (lungs are collapsed from gun shots... and they are bigger, less armored targets than the brain). Don't count on a heart shot either. The brain and the rest of the body can live for several minutes without fresh blood. It takes sixty seconds to bleed out from an artery and you pretty much won't bleed out if the heart is destroyed... you will leak out. Either way it will be a while before you absolutely must stop (assuming you don't go unconscious or are consumed by the pain... you know... drugs and/or adrenaline can make you pretty tough).

All of these things facts show why all of these "extraordinary" events occur. Basically, you need to have as many rounds as possible. Whatever you can carry. We can't always count on getting a clean shot on a target as small as the head under stress. We need to choose a round that can penetrate as deeply as possible through the torso. The only thing we can really hope to accomplish with pistol calibers is massive trauma to as many organs in the torso as possible... this will make it hard to breathe (lungs) and hopefully induce shock so we don't have to wait for them to bleed to death. Unfortunately drugs/adrenaline can make people immune to pain and thus shock. So I would pack as many rounds as possible that can penetrate as deeply as possible that can ALSO penetrate the skull reliably (as hopefully after half the mag the bad guy will at least slow down enough for you to stop them with a well-placed head shot). That is my plan. I believe THAT is the most effective way to choose a caliber. Whatever cartridge you pick as long as you can do that I believe you will be able to stop any attacker you will face in a self-defense scenario.

Don't plan on one well placed head shot (or trying to hit the head once or twice with your whole mag). Don't plan on one-shot-stops. Don't plan on never missing or missing very little. Don't think any round will compensate for accuracy, training, and shot placement. Pick the round you must based upon what you are able to carry realistically. Analyze your round of choice's capabilities and train to maximize its strengths in a self-defense situation. Understand that a .25 or .380 might not reliably penetrate the skull. Realize that a 9mm or a .45 might not penetrate the skull either. Realize that handguns suck at killing. Realize that you will miss. Realize that there is no one round that will do the job. Pick the one that works best for you in your situation and train to use its strengths to the fullest extent.

-Whatever gun you choose to carry make sure you train with it.

-Make sure you can actually hit with what you choose to carry.

-Make sure you can actually conceal what you choose to carry. The clothes you normally wear, your daily routine, the time of the year, et cetera all determine the size of the weapon you are capable of carrying without letting everyone know that you are armed. The size of the weapon limits the capacity and/or caliber of the weapon you choose to carry.

I wrote a lot. Sorry.
 
.25 ACP Fail

Yes This may be true. But it had to have been the angle. because even a .22 Long Rifle. Can easily Penetrate your skull. Even though a .22 Shoots faster than a .25 ACP. (22 Fires at 1,200 Ft/s and 25 ACP Fires at 1,000 Ft/s). Anyways it only Takes 800 Ft/s To Penetrate A Skull. But it is Still Believable, My Doctor Knows A Guy Who lived After Getting shot in the Head with a .357 . But now he is a Vegetable. No Joke.
 
Having been in EMS, LE, and watched a few autopsies, I can say I have not seen any definitive data on the outcome of a headshot with a .25 ACP. One shot stops have occurred, bouncing off head has occurred, and penetrating of scalp and circling the outside of the skull have occurred. My Dad tried to put a poor old sick cow out of its misery and shot it in the head six time point blank with his Galesi. I was sent to redo the job with a 12 gauge and found the old girl alert and what appeared to be a case of the measles on her white face.

Conclusions:
A: The 6.35mm is better than no gun
B: The are a lot better choices for SD
C: Some critters both 2 and 4 legged have hard heads!!!
 
I went to a funeral of a one shot stop shot to the head with a .25acp.

What's your point?:mad::mad::mad:

The bullet went in and spun around his skull and severed his spinal cord.:mad:
 
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I forgot to mention, his father was shot (Psychiatrist in Louisville KY) in the head with a .357 magnum gun at "Point blank" years before, and it skipped off his head and went through a few (or more) more wall's. And he lived to tell about it with only blown ear drums.

I could not make this up!
 
The moral of these anecdotes - If the bad guy looks like Charlie Brown, aim for com. On the other hand, if he looks like Lucy, make a tactical retreat!:D
 
Bill DeShivs wrote: "It's acceptable to me and thousands of other people!"

What would you chose for backup, a fly swatter or a pointed stick?:D
 
I know a guy who accidently shot himself in the head with a 357. magnum. He has some brain damage and part of his skull is missing. I believe his mother said something about not being able to repair it due to swelling of the brain. He is not a vegetable but has some problems with memory, impulse control and anger. I was shot in the side with a 22lr during a bar fight in 1967. The round hit me in the lower abdomen and stopped under the skin in my back. No internal damage at all. I usually carry a 45 or 38 but use an NAA Pug in 22 wmr. for a bug.
 
Hhmmm....If the capacity for penetration is in doubt, there are several natural orifices into the brain. Of course, I suppose that makes things kind of up close, and personal--Patrice :cool:
 
I had a good friend that was dying of cancer. He shot himself in the head with a .25 acp. The bullet went through his head and out the wall beside him. He died in the hospital 3-4 hrs later.
 
pocket gun

hi guys ,im new and im look for small pocket gun like baby browning. .22 cal mid cond. and not too mach money, Are you know some like that. Thx
 
Had a guy here killed by a .177 caliber air rifle. Was hit bu a pellet and it slipped between the ribs and hit his heart. Died quickly. Don't want to be shot by anything either!
 
"What would you chose for backup, a fly swatter or a pointed stick?"

I doubt I would need a backup.

Gepi- The Baby Browning was a .25, not a .22.
 
Guys, nobody is saying that it's not possible to inflict a fatal wound with a 25 ACP.

It is.

The problem is that there is a larger probability of a failure to stop with a 25 ACP that with almost anything else. That's why it's a poor choice for self defense.

And yes, many times the mere presence of a gun is enough to handle the situation. So I'll concede the point that when any gun will do, a 25 ACP will do as well as any other. However, it seems foolish to carry a gun that is so likely not to achieve its purpose if you have to actually shoot it. Now that there are truly tiny guns available in 32 ACP, 380 and even 9mm, there's not much point in the 25 ACP anymore.
 
sigxder, I once saw on tv where a youngster shot another youngster with a Daisy BB gun. The BB went through a window screen; hit the boy in the chest and puncture his heart. It was on some talk show or something.


ps,
on another note. There is a story in my area where a little old lady working a convenience store shot a would be robber with a .32 S&W short, she said that he dropped like a swatted fly.
 
In this thread we've been regaled with many anecdotes of .25 ACP succeses and failures.

Well, below is some hard evidence, penetration tests of FMJ .25 ACP projectiles.

22varblk.JPG


Cartridges : CCI Blazer and Sellier and Bellot FMJ

Firearm : Beretta 21a pistol with 2.4" barrel.


Shot 1 - Sellier and Bellot 50 grain FMJ. Penetrated to 13.3", no expansion present. Outlined in yellow on the photo.

Shot 2 - CCI Blazer 50 grain FMJ. Penetrated to 16" and exited the back of the block. Bullet was not recovered.

Hope one doesn't ever strike my thorax or cranium, or any other portion of my body for that matter.
 
And, regardless of how small a .32 or .380 is made, a .25 can be made commensurately smaller. There are no .32/.380 guns as small as a Baby Browning or Bernardelli .25. Close, but not as small.
 
Even though a .22 Shoots faster than a .25 ACP. (22 Fires at 1,200 Ft/s and 25 ACP Fires at 1,000 Ft/s). Anyways it only Takes 800 Ft/s To Penetrate A Skull.
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Keep in mind 1200fps for .22lr is generally only possible from a rifle, not a pistol, and 1000fps for a .25acp is pretty overstated, at least given the barrel length of the typical .25acp firearm.

800fps doesn't mean much as it's only one part of the equation, things like the bullet type, and bullet weight, and other factors also play an important role.
 
penetration through gelatin is not the same as through a person. though it got13 inches through that gelatin it might not even break skin through heavy winter clothes.
 
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