243 enough on deer at 300 yds?
- Thread starter spruilldog
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SKULLANDCROSSBONES65
New member
G'day. In Australia to take some breeds of deer there is a minimum caliber of .270, so the .243 gets knocked out of the equation on that basis.
With the .243 at 300 yards hitting the vital organs, does the projectile finish on the far side of the animal or is all the energy used up before it gets there?
How does this compare to a similar shot from say a 30-06?
With the .243 at 300 yards hitting the vital organs, does the projectile finish on the far side of the animal or is all the energy used up before it gets there?
How does this compare to a similar shot from say a 30-06?
I don't think any "MAGIC" round exists but with a bunch of different rounds your "room to deviate" from a PERFECT placement! A .300 win mag is going to have a larger wound channel dynamic devastation given the proper bullet choice and it is just a tiny bit larger in diameter. And a 12 gauge slug is another that leaves some room for error. Heck the sumbuck ain't gotta penetrate and would lay one on 'er side long enuff for shot #2...
Given' i am not super hot shot with aging vision I tend to lean towards wallop! There was a time in my childhood that we were dirt dang poor! I had at my disposal a 12 gauge single shot, a .410 bolt 3 round capacity and a .22 single lr shot. I never used the 12! I took down several species of MEAT with the .410 and .22 If i got lucky enuff to come up on a summer deer 25 yards away I wouldn't hesitate to place a 36 grain 'tween 'er eyes! Never had a walk off with them shots.
So yes I agree placement is key but a bit of leeway is given with a few different rounds... And lets not forget that .45-70... I bet that thing would knock down a chimney!
Brent
Given' i am not super hot shot with aging vision I tend to lean towards wallop! There was a time in my childhood that we were dirt dang poor! I had at my disposal a 12 gauge single shot, a .410 bolt 3 round capacity and a .22 single lr shot. I never used the 12! I took down several species of MEAT with the .410 and .22 If i got lucky enuff to come up on a summer deer 25 yards away I wouldn't hesitate to place a 36 grain 'tween 'er eyes! Never had a walk off with them shots.
So yes I agree placement is key but a bit of leeway is given with a few different rounds... And lets not forget that .45-70... I bet that thing would knock down a chimney!
Brent
j.chappell
New member
It is hard to compare calibers unless you are using the same bullet and shooting at the same medium (game) at the same distance.
On the 243, depending on bullet, and shot placement you will have a through and through shot, it may make it to the off side and stop short of exiting, or it may barely make it into the vitals. I have had 100gr Partitions pass through on a braodside shot at just over 285 yards. This was on a whitetail doe of about 125lbs.
Also I have used Berger VLD's. WOW, these things enter and devistate everything inside but do not usually make it to the off side. I have never had a deer shot with a Berger VLD move a foot. They drop as if God himself struck them down. They create massive internal damage and deliver every single ounce of energy into the vitals of your game.
J.
P.S. I happen to love the 45-70 GOV! Knocks em all down! My uncle swears that I scare most of my deer to death with that "big ole thing" before the bullet even gets there.
On the 243, depending on bullet, and shot placement you will have a through and through shot, it may make it to the off side and stop short of exiting, or it may barely make it into the vitals. I have had 100gr Partitions pass through on a braodside shot at just over 285 yards. This was on a whitetail doe of about 125lbs.
Also I have used Berger VLD's. WOW, these things enter and devistate everything inside but do not usually make it to the off side. I have never had a deer shot with a Berger VLD move a foot. They drop as if God himself struck them down. They create massive internal damage and deliver every single ounce of energy into the vitals of your game.
J.
P.S. I happen to love the 45-70 GOV! Knocks em all down! My uncle swears that I scare most of my deer to death with that "big ole thing" before the bullet even gets there.
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I'll restate my belief that most shooters will shoot much better with a 243 -and similar cartridges- than they will with the next class up; 06's and such. We should probably all shoot better than we tend to, but the reality that I have seen is that most hunters are woefully unpracticed with the weapon they carry. I'm all for cartridges that folks might use to shoot jack rabbits AND mule deer with. And mule deer should fear those folks. jd
I've never shot anything with mine, but I bougth an SPS Varmint in .243 for exactly the same reasons you want it....deer and coyote.....maybe ground hogs occasionally! I've got mine scope with a 3.5-10 x 44 Bushnell Scopechief (made by Bausch & Lomb) I want to take it to the range and slowly and properly break it in while I sight it in, then hit the woods and field for coyotes! I'll have to go out of state for deer, no rifles in Ohio for deer!
LateNightFlight
New member
I'm leaving in a week and taking my 243 as a back up for elk, never mind deer. My 243 is experienced with deer and has no bad stories. (one not so great but all's well that ends well) Just like real estate, it's "location - location - location." That said, the bigger guns do better with any foul hits simply because of exsanguinating hemorrhage or CNS compromise where shots contact marginal proximities. For that reason, and because nobody's perfect when you're hunting rather than sitting at your target bench, I prefer the bigger guns to the 243. Even then, I've been astounded by the amount of travel I've seen from deer well hit with a 7mm mag and a couple of 300s. Don't assume that a buck covering a hundred yards before disappearing into the woods wasn't hit through both lungs. You might even extend that to a quarter mile with a 243. (Not the rule, just sayin'.)
As for my 243 back-up for elk plan, you can bet I'll be within 150 yards (zeroed at 100) and I'll do everything required to transect the heart, or, forget it.
As for my 243 back-up for elk plan, you can bet I'll be within 150 yards (zeroed at 100) and I'll do everything required to transect the heart, or, forget it.
scoobydoo6906
New member
I don't see why .243 is the bee's knees, seriously a .308 has a tiny bit more recoil is very suited for what you are talking about. if you are worried about recoil that much get a 7mm-08 and probably even better suited for coyotes than a .308. all I am saying is in any kind of wind its going to be dicey, I would like a little more insurance for the deers sake. I consider 1000 lbs/ft energy at the max range I intend to hunt at as the bear minimum. the .243 with a 95 grain bullet has 1162 lbs/ft of energy at 300 yards and a Ballistic Coefficient of .355. the 7mm-08 with a 140 grain bullet has 1664 lbs/ft of energy at 300 yards and a Ballistic Coefficient of .486. what is Ballistic Coefficient (B.C) any why am I talking about it? well here is the definition of B.C: (B.C.) its the ability of a bullet to overcome air resistance in flight. this is important in many ways but it is very important in windy or breezy weather. the higher the B.C the better the bullet is able to resist being blown off target and to be able to retain its energy at distance. my example is the same bullet weight, same caliber different B.C's the differences between the two loads B.C wise is .129. the difference between a 7mm-08 and a .243 is .131 in there best long range loadings. so my example is within .002 of being a perfect example. both example loads are 2700 ft/sec at the muzzle, at 300 yards the higher B.C bullet is moving at 2032 the lower B.C bullet is at 1727 the difference is 305 ft/sec. energy wise at 300 yards that is 458 ft/lbs of energy lost. 458 ft/lbs. thats about the same energy that a .45 acp has at the muzzle for your information. but I am not really not to worried about the energy so much, but be aware shooting into or across the wind will kill velocity and lose lots of energy. but you can see how much B.C affects velocity and same is true with dealing with cross winds, its just not such huge numbers. oh buy the way I cherry picked the very best load for the .243 at 300 yards so if you don't pick the right load its going to be a larger difference being that I picked the best .243 load.
LateNightFlight
New member
Scooby, I thought you might have meant bare minimum here. But in a discussion of BC, bear minimum works pretty well.
Someone said it before about a broadside shot at 300yrds being the only shot and I couldnt agree. The profile of a deer coming or going at that distance leaves you very little room to work with or margin of error with any rifle or caliber. I used a .243 for deer and coyotes out here in AZ and have taken down some good size mulies with it. I did however step up to 6.8 recently cuz I wanted to toy with the idea of taking bigger game. I love the .243 a great over all round with lots of support and knowledgeable people around that have lots of experience with it.
desertkuwait
Inactive
300 yards no problem with 243 100 grain
Today was opening day in Maine resident only gun hunt.
I was sitting in my stand at about 8:30 A.M when a nice little 125 lb Doe stepped out of the woods. I was using the Savage 11 model in 243 with 100 grain Hornady bullets. After I looked her over I decided to take the shot(meat is meat in the freezer)I fired one shot from about 285 yards and she dropped in her tracks!!! When I looked fo entry and exit wounds i found the round went clean through (at 285 Yards) I would recommend a 243 with a great place shot
Today was opening day in Maine resident only gun hunt.
I was sitting in my stand at about 8:30 A.M when a nice little 125 lb Doe stepped out of the woods. I was using the Savage 11 model in 243 with 100 grain Hornady bullets. After I looked her over I decided to take the shot(meat is meat in the freezer)I fired one shot from about 285 yards and she dropped in her tracks!!! When I looked fo entry and exit wounds i found the round went clean through (at 285 Yards) I would recommend a 243 with a great place shot
I have an old model 70 Winchester that was made in 1956 that's chambered in .243. I've used it to kill several deer, and my grandfather used it to kill a bunch of deer before that. It works just fine.
I've also killed several hundred coyotes with it, dating back to the early-mid 1980's. It works fine on those, too, but tears up the hides some.
I've shot mostly 100 grain bullets out of mine, handloaded to about 3100 fps. I prefer Speer SPBT's, but have used a lot of Sierra bullets as well.
The Sierra's are more fragile, and will tear up more meat.
To the guy that said he had friends who'd made neck shots on deer with a .243, and the deer was lost? They missed the neck, or didn't hit anything vital (read-just grazed the deer). Most deer I've hit with a .243 dropped in their tracks. A bigger gun won't solve their problem; it'll just kick harder when they miss.
All that said, I wouldn't go much beyond that 300 yard mark. I've killed them farther than that, but it gets chancy. There's a reason I grab my 7mm mag these days when hunting open country.
Daryl
I've also killed several hundred coyotes with it, dating back to the early-mid 1980's. It works fine on those, too, but tears up the hides some.
I've shot mostly 100 grain bullets out of mine, handloaded to about 3100 fps. I prefer Speer SPBT's, but have used a lot of Sierra bullets as well.
The Sierra's are more fragile, and will tear up more meat.
To the guy that said he had friends who'd made neck shots on deer with a .243, and the deer was lost? They missed the neck, or didn't hit anything vital (read-just grazed the deer). Most deer I've hit with a .243 dropped in their tracks. A bigger gun won't solve their problem; it'll just kick harder when they miss.
All that said, I wouldn't go much beyond that 300 yard mark. I've killed them farther than that, but it gets chancy. There's a reason I grab my 7mm mag these days when hunting open country.
Daryl
nra_guns_winner
Moderator
.243 @ 300yds. NO get a new gun or a new dog. The reason for the dog is to find your wounded deer on the neighbors property.
While most may not take 300 yard shots, some certainly do. My farthest was 472; closest was under 10 yards a couple different times. Most are somewhere between those extremes.
I take a lot of long range shots on coyotes, usually from a sitting position, and hit the vast majority of them. It really isn't all that hard; it just takes some practice.
The .243 Win is perfectly capable of taking deer at 300 yards, both efficiently and effectively. It's up to the hunter/shooter to do their part in making the shot correctly. If you don't make the shot right, the cartridge likely won't make all that much difference. If you can't hit a softball at the range your shooting, from whatever position you're shooting from, then you probably shouldn't be taking that shot at a deer IMO.
Daryl
.243 for deer.
At one point in my distant youth, I theorized that if I used a varmint bullet in my 6mm Remington, Browning B78, a deer's ribs being not very thick, the bullet would "blow up" when it hit the deers side and spray the vitals, heart, lungs, liver, with little bits of the bullet producing a quick kill. (I hope that sentence was not to complex to have the meaning understood.) The kills were all but instant on the 8 or so deer that I shot over varying distances using a Hornady 87 grain varmint bullet. However upon examination, the bullets had not "blown up" despite being varmint bullets (no channeler). The jacket would peel off and stay in the deer, whereas the core would exit the other side of the deer. In any case, the deer would collapse within 10-20 feet of the shot. Despite the failure of the theory, the 6mm with 87 grain Hornady bullets worked so well, that I did not change the load and it became the only load that I used in that gun for any purpose including deer, crows, et. al.
Aside from my personal observations on the success of the 6mm (slightly more cartridge capacity than .243 win...but its twin none the less), the local respected gun smith (the late Mr. Ron Pederson, father of gun engraver Rex Pederson of Michigan), used the .243 for everything he shot including moose in Canada. He stated that in his experience, there was no need for anything else in the lower 48 if you shoot the critter in the ribs, behind the shoulder. He also stated that there was no reason to shoot any animal beyond 200 yards in sport hunting. He further stated that the idea that larger cartridges give a greater measure of assurance recovering the animal after a marginal hit was just horse feathers inasmuch as if they had been shooting something they could handle (.243) the hit was less likely to be marginal...thus countering the perceived advantage of a larger caliber.
Therefore, he and I agree with the original post that a person with a .243 will shoot better than persons who use larger and bigger stuff.
A side note, my 6mm B-78 had a sharp kick whereas the the .243 Ruger MarkII I have is a real pussycat compared to it. I do not know why...the B78 was(sold it years ago to help finance grad school), heaver.
At one point in my distant youth, I theorized that if I used a varmint bullet in my 6mm Remington, Browning B78, a deer's ribs being not very thick, the bullet would "blow up" when it hit the deers side and spray the vitals, heart, lungs, liver, with little bits of the bullet producing a quick kill. (I hope that sentence was not to complex to have the meaning understood.) The kills were all but instant on the 8 or so deer that I shot over varying distances using a Hornady 87 grain varmint bullet. However upon examination, the bullets had not "blown up" despite being varmint bullets (no channeler). The jacket would peel off and stay in the deer, whereas the core would exit the other side of the deer. In any case, the deer would collapse within 10-20 feet of the shot. Despite the failure of the theory, the 6mm with 87 grain Hornady bullets worked so well, that I did not change the load and it became the only load that I used in that gun for any purpose including deer, crows, et. al.
Aside from my personal observations on the success of the 6mm (slightly more cartridge capacity than .243 win...but its twin none the less), the local respected gun smith (the late Mr. Ron Pederson, father of gun engraver Rex Pederson of Michigan), used the .243 for everything he shot including moose in Canada. He stated that in his experience, there was no need for anything else in the lower 48 if you shoot the critter in the ribs, behind the shoulder. He also stated that there was no reason to shoot any animal beyond 200 yards in sport hunting. He further stated that the idea that larger cartridges give a greater measure of assurance recovering the animal after a marginal hit was just horse feathers inasmuch as if they had been shooting something they could handle (.243) the hit was less likely to be marginal...thus countering the perceived advantage of a larger caliber.
Therefore, he and I agree with the original post that a person with a .243 will shoot better than persons who use larger and bigger stuff.
A side note, my 6mm B-78 had a sharp kick whereas the the .243 Ruger MarkII I have is a real pussycat compared to it. I do not know why...the B78 was(sold it years ago to help finance grad school), heaver.