.243 as a Military round.

So what this whole post is saying is that we are gonna treat our enemy like varmints. lol

we'll sit on the porch of our bradly fighting vehicle and pick em of when they stick their head out of the foxholes. Make a day of it, I'm there.

oh, and dont forget the 10ga for the flying varmints
 
Sorry to get into this so late.

About 4 years ago, I worked with Olympic Arms on a prototype rifle based on the .223 necked up to take 6mm bullets. The cartridge is identified as a 6mm X 45mm in the Seirra Rifle Reloading manual.

Since then, I have been used the rifle for both training and duty, (factory ammunition is available from RBCD ammo). The ballistics that I settled on was a 85 gr bullet traveling 2600 fps.

This load, (using the Seirra 85 gr matchking bullet) is capable of minute of angle or better out of the right rifle, (the very accurate Olypic arms rifles do just fine).

I wanted a rifle that was more accurate than a .223, but still as small for patrol rifle duties. I also wanted more punch through heavy cover, and this rifle/cartridge does it all.

I have an ACOG 3.5 X 35 on the flat top. The barrel is an 18 inch barrel with the 16 inch gas system, with a Vortex flash suppressor, (it was a pre-ban). Aluminum handguard, free floated barrel.

The gun can be seen on Jim Cirillo's second video, as I shoot a rapid fire group with 4 of the 5 bullets within 2.5 inches, and the 5th flier just outside 3".

To validate the concept, I attended and H+K precisoin rifle course and used that rifle to qualify with, and did just fine, despite the non-precision reticle in the scope. (it has a 3 moa donut shaped reticle).

Recently, I have been testing another version for better accuracy, it is a post ban receiver, (same barrel), with an Oly compensator, and a Leopould 3.5X 10 tactical atop it. I fired 6 3-shot groups in succession, (no cool off period). First group was half inch, next 4 were about one inch or better, (I didn't measure each exactly), and the final group was again under half inch.

Last weekend, I was discussing this rifle with Chuck Taylor and he was pretty interested in the concept, and Jim Cirillo just loves it. I have been too busy to pursue the concept further, but with a little more time on my hands lately, I am seriously considering pushing the idea further.
 
Marty,

You make an AR-180-type rifle in .250 Savage +P, and I think you will have something that a great many folk will think is just about the perfect rifle. You'll have a good, clean operating system, a "just right" cartridge that's neither too weak nor too painful to shoot, and a rifle than can be produced for little more than the plinking Mini-14 or -30.

Hell, you could even make a version without a pistol grip, so you could have one of those eeeevil flash suppressors.
 
excellent work nightcrawler.
if you think about it, if every soldier in both vietnam and desert storm had carried a garand instead of an m16a2 the individual results would have been better if anything. i am well aware of the added weight of this weapon but no one really seemed to complain about it during ww2. the accounts i have read of ww2 soldiers said that they gladly tolerated the weight of the garand because of its reliability, accuracy, and stopping power. same with the m-14 in vietnam. the whole concept of the 5mm round is an attempt a PC'ing the armed forces. i think .243 is perfect.
 
That 6mm SAW round identified by Kernel looks very efficient. Obviously a great deal of R&D went into it and I think we should reconsider it.
As a reloader I like the looks of the round with its long neck and relatively short length.
Think of all the surplus .223 that would be available.
In the meantime I will favor my AR10 in .243 and Rem. 700 Custom 6mm.
mac
 
Art, I am curious about your comment that barrel life is limited when muzzle velocity is over 3000 fps. Doesn't the M16 have a muzzle velocity of 3100-3200 fps ? Does it also have a limited barrel life?

If we want to utilize the powder capacity and pressure of .243, instead of downloading it, we will need a bullet heavier than 100gr to maintain a muzzle velocity less than 3000 fps. For this to work, a twist rate of 1/9" or faster would be required. A 115gr should have a muzzle velocity of 2700-2800 fps and would have a sectional density comparable to a 183gr .308.

-z
 
smithz, maybe "much over 3,000" would have been better. Anyway, if you look at the hotshot cartridges of whatever sort, you find reduced barrel life for such as the .220 Swift or the .264 Mag/7mm Mag as compared to the .223 or .308.

There's a lot of guess work and variables in all this stuff. For instance, there are numerous instances of accuracy not suffering to any great degree with throats just really "shot out". Nobody seems to know why.

Generalizing, the best compromise between performance and barrel life seems to be in the vicinity of 3,000 ft/sec, or in the range of maybe 2,700 to 3,200. I don't think I'd try to drive a .416 Rigby bullet at 3,200 and expect good barrel life; I don't think I'd expect good .223 performance with muzzle velocities below 2,700.

Gun performance just ain't like designing bridges, with the fairly absolute performance you can expect from rebar steel and five-sack/yard concrete.

"And that's the way it is",

:), Art
 
IIRC the AR/M-16 has chromed barrels to slow barrel erosion.

Art: I don't think barrel life would be the limiting factor with a 416 bullet @ 3000+ fps :D
I think shoulder life would be the problem.
 
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