In the long run, the worst that happens if you don't challege delusions of other members is that THEY will continue to carry sub-optimal ammo. Is their welfare so important that we should convinces them to change their habits at all costs? Please keep the relative unimportance of winning this debate in perspective.
230 gr or 185 gr?
- Thread starter DOCSpanky
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lonegunman
New member
True, Oleg.... I will back off (for now).
Singlestack
Inactive
On a whole different line of thought, I shoot IPSC with a .45. I tested everything from a 185g SWC to 230g FMJ @ major Power Factor (165)
Singlestack
Inactive
On a whole different line of thought, I shoot IPSC with a .45. I tested everything from a 185g SWC to 230g FMJ @ major Power Factor (165) and in my opinion the heavier bullets have less recoil. It takes a lot more powder to make a 185g bullet go 892 fps then it does to make a 230g bullet go 717 fps. When I started this project I would have thought that the heavier bullet (more weight) would have caused heavier recoil at the same PF. After shooting 200g SWC's for a long time my new fav is a 225 TFP @ 746 fps that shoots so soft you would not think it made PF. Sorry for changing the subject. Just thought I would throw something else in the mix. Anybody else have an opinion on this?
Choosing between superlatives...
Mercedes or BMW?
Abrams or Leopard 2?
DaVinci or Michelangelo?
My V10 is set up to run reliably on standard pressure 230gr JHPs or 185gr +Ps. I can't see getting too wrapped around the axle picking between these fine choices. Expansion on modern JHPs tends to be reliable over a broader range of velocities than earlier designs. We've shot jell-o and water on a couple of occasions with 230gr standard-pressure Golden Sabers and Gold Dots out of the V10 and a Colt Defender, and even out of these ported, Officer's Model-size pistols, expansion was surprisingly consistent.
Mercedes or BMW?
Abrams or Leopard 2?
DaVinci or Michelangelo?
My V10 is set up to run reliably on standard pressure 230gr JHPs or 185gr +Ps. I can't see getting too wrapped around the axle picking between these fine choices. Expansion on modern JHPs tends to be reliable over a broader range of velocities than earlier designs. We've shot jell-o and water on a couple of occasions with 230gr standard-pressure Golden Sabers and Gold Dots out of the V10 and a Colt Defender, and even out of these ported, Officer's Model-size pistols, expansion was surprisingly consistent.
Double Naught Spy
New member
For the shorter barrel, the 185 is most likely your best choice. Go out and see if you can find a copy of the March 2001 Shooting Times magazine. There is a section on Ultra Compact .45s as well as information on how different defensive rounds performed out of a 3.15" Kimber barrel, 4.25 commander, 5.0" full-size, and a 6.0" long slide. Not only will you see that the 185 is likely a better choice for your gun, you will be able to see how a few different brands and weights performed out of a gun comparable to yours.
Sure, 230 gr. would still be a good round, but the 185 would be better. It is important to pick the right round for the gun you use.
For example, of the 185s listed, Speer Gold Dot gave 901 fps out of the 3.16" barrel. That was the same speed of the Fed. Hydrashock 230 gr. out of the 5" barrel. The Hydrashock 230 gr. only produced 769 fps out of the 3.16" barrel. To be honest, the Speer Gold Dot 185 out performed Winchester 185 silver tip that only gave 802 fps from the 3.16" barrel, and the Hornady 185 HP/XTP that had 814 fps.
Based on what Shooting Times showed, the Speer Gold Dot 185 seemed to be the best choice for a barrel that short.
Get a copy of the magazine and check the information and the writer's evaluations yourself.
Sure, 230 gr. would still be a good round, but the 185 would be better. It is important to pick the right round for the gun you use.
For example, of the 185s listed, Speer Gold Dot gave 901 fps out of the 3.16" barrel. That was the same speed of the Fed. Hydrashock 230 gr. out of the 5" barrel. The Hydrashock 230 gr. only produced 769 fps out of the 3.16" barrel. To be honest, the Speer Gold Dot 185 out performed Winchester 185 silver tip that only gave 802 fps from the 3.16" barrel, and the Hornady 185 HP/XTP that had 814 fps.
Based on what Shooting Times showed, the Speer Gold Dot 185 seemed to be the best choice for a barrel that short.
Get a copy of the magazine and check the information and the writer's evaluations yourself.
Killit n Grillit
New member
Alot of great info here about the 45 and ammo,I`d hate to be on the recieving end of any 45 with whatever ammo coming at me.
With ammunition, there is a point of diminishing returns. At some point, dramatically increased pressure is required for fairly small velocity increases.
As has been stated, bullet performance is a function of both design and impact velocity.
Having read a lot of gun magazines
, my favored defensive bullet weights had always been lighter. One does find, however, that lightweight bullets lose their velocity much more rapidly than heavier ones in the same caliber. It is fairly easy to find some lightweight rounds whose velocity is equalled or passed a bit downrange by heavier bullets in the same caliber.
Some of us believe that we should be prepared to defend ourselves at some distance, even if handicapped by being equipped with a mere sidearm.
As has been stated, bullet performance is a function of both design and impact velocity.
Having read a lot of gun magazines
, my favored defensive bullet weights had always been lighter. One does find, however, that lightweight bullets lose their velocity much more rapidly than heavier ones in the same caliber. It is fairly easy to find some lightweight rounds whose velocity is equalled or passed a bit downrange by heavier bullets in the same caliber.Some of us believe that we should be prepared to defend ourselves at some distance, even if handicapped by being equipped with a mere sidearm.
The real answer...
There was an article in Handgunner (?) a few issues ago about actual police shootings and had most all the popular carry combinations. IIRC #1 was .357 125 JHP at maybe 96-97%, and the 185 .45 was around 94%. Suprised me that the 230 was about 2% lower. I had been (and still do) carrying 230 GS in my 1911.
All in all, the top calibers gave realistically close enough performance that it's pretty much a moot point (other than perhaps the over-penetration factor). Guess it's fun to argue from an armchair but in the real world I doubt most people could tell the difference, especially from the receiving end.
There was an article in Handgunner (?) a few issues ago about actual police shootings and had most all the popular carry combinations. IIRC #1 was .357 125 JHP at maybe 96-97%, and the 185 .45 was around 94%. Suprised me that the 230 was about 2% lower. I had been (and still do) carrying 230 GS in my 1911.
All in all, the top calibers gave realistically close enough performance that it's pretty much a moot point (other than perhaps the over-penetration factor). Guess it's fun to argue from an armchair but in the real world I doubt most people could tell the difference, especially from the receiving end.
Liberty Ship
New member
Would you rather be hit by an electron at the speed of light, or a watermellon at 75 fps?
I carry 230's -- either GS's or HS's.
I carry 230's -- either GS's or HS's.
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
You want to hit a mellon with an electron - Hold a 9 volt battery to it. Don't do much does it?
I`m at a loss as to why folks are arguing this with such zeal. This isn`t even a light/fast vs. heavy/slow issue, 185.gr. isn`t light at all and they don`t go all that fast. The way I see it the 230gr.(especially HS,GD,GS) is a great baseline load for any .45 and I`d feel well protected with any of them. However due to the lost velocity with very short barrels I`d lean toward a faster load to help compensate,given a choice. Look at it this way,if say 230 HS is a great balance between velocity,weight and dia. in a 5" gun and you loose velocity to a shorter barrel then it`s necessary to lose a little weight to increase velocity and balance it back out again. Remember there have been many large cal. loads over the years that were less than great stoppers (.455 Webley,.41 Rem.RF,.44 S&W Volcanic etc.),they had dia. and weight but not enough velocity. Not that modern 230gr. loads even at low velocities aren`t worlds better than these old geezers but it serves to make a point,for a load to work at it`s *best* weight,dia. and velocity but achieve a sensible balance. That said I load my med./full sized .45s with 230gr.HS,if I had a compact .45 it would be loaded with 185gr.GS. If I had to load the compact with 230gr.HS I certainly wouldn`t worry about it though,in fact 230gr. FMJ although my last choice still wouldn`t make me loose any sleep. 
Marcus
Marcus
Cavè Canem
New member
I shoot 230gr Federal Hydra Shock rounds through my G30 and my PT945. I have also put Winchester SXT's through my PT945.
The Federals mentioned above have the best one-stop-shot record of all .45ACP loads with a 95% average. Or so I have read.
The Federals mentioned above have the best one-stop-shot record of all .45ACP loads with a 95% average. Or so I have read.
juliet charley
New member
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CastleBravo
New member
Personal opinion, I'd lean towards lighter bullets at higher speeds in shorter barrels.
The only thing I'd throw out is that if you compare the sectional densities of the bullets involved, a 185gr .45 ACP bullet has about the same SD as a 115gr 9mm bullet and a 230gr .45 ACP about the same SD as a 147gr 9mm bullet. Oddly enough, people will advocate 230gr .45 ACP and say a 147gr 9mm bullet is a terrible performer... but 115gr +P 9mm bullets are good.
Of course, it is all academic to me... I carry 165-180gr 10mm JHPs at 1200+ FPS.
The only thing I'd throw out is that if you compare the sectional densities of the bullets involved, a 185gr .45 ACP bullet has about the same SD as a 115gr 9mm bullet and a 230gr .45 ACP about the same SD as a 147gr 9mm bullet. Oddly enough, people will advocate 230gr .45 ACP and say a 147gr 9mm bullet is a terrible performer... but 115gr +P 9mm bullets are good.
Of course, it is all academic to me... I carry 165-180gr 10mm JHPs at 1200+ FPS.