230 gr or 185 gr?
- Thread starter DOCSpanky
- Start date
Johnny Guest
Moderator in Memoriam
Probably the heavier bullet - - -
The light bullets came into common use in full length (five-inch) 1911 type pistols mainly for 25 yard bullseye target shooting. Very light loads in highly-tuned, softly sprung (springed?) "softball" target guns allowed for a lot of practice shooting with reduced fatigue on the shooter. A lot of dedicated bullseye shooters (I admit, never my game) felt that the short, fat, little 185 began destabilizing well before the 50-yard target was reached. Some had separate loads, 185 for 25 yards, and 200 SWCs for 50 yards. Many just went with the 200 for everything.
My only experience with the 185s was in trying to work up some practice loads for the 185 to 190 gr. JHP loads for game hunting, seeking high velocity to flatten out trajectory. I was disappointed in the accuracy.
I want to use full weight bullets in the shorter barrels of my Commander and Officers ACP pistols to ensure adequate penetration. (1) The reduced velocity makes light bullet expansion a sometimes thing. (2) A .451 bullet is pretty nicely expanded when it leaves the barrel.
As to your request, DOCSpanky, I do not pretend to be a "budding ballistician," but thought to throw out a couple of thoughts.
Bes,
Johnny
The light bullets came into common use in full length (five-inch) 1911 type pistols mainly for 25 yard bullseye target shooting. Very light loads in highly-tuned, softly sprung (springed?) "softball" target guns allowed for a lot of practice shooting with reduced fatigue on the shooter. A lot of dedicated bullseye shooters (I admit, never my game) felt that the short, fat, little 185 began destabilizing well before the 50-yard target was reached. Some had separate loads, 185 for 25 yards, and 200 SWCs for 50 yards. Many just went with the 200 for everything.
My only experience with the 185s was in trying to work up some practice loads for the 185 to 190 gr. JHP loads for game hunting, seeking high velocity to flatten out trajectory. I was disappointed in the accuracy.
I want to use full weight bullets in the shorter barrels of my Commander and Officers ACP pistols to ensure adequate penetration. (1) The reduced velocity makes light bullet expansion a sometimes thing. (2) A .451 bullet is pretty nicely expanded when it leaves the barrel.
As to your request, DOCSpanky, I do not pretend to be a "budding ballistician," but thought to throw out a couple of thoughts.
Bes,
Johnny
You can't beat the .45 ACP in Federal's 230 grain Hydra-shok for self-defense.
Personally, I see no reason to use anything less than 230 grain bullets for any .45 ACP pistol--short or long barrel. I presenly do not own a .45, but when I did, I used 230 grain exclusively for practice and to carry for self-defense, although I never actually had to use it in self-defense.
Stay away from the +P loads with a short barrel. All it will do is cause more recoil without really added much more velocity. There isn't enough barrel length do burn the extra powder for +P to be very effective.
Personally, I see no reason to use anything less than 230 grain bullets for any .45 ACP pistol--short or long barrel. I presenly do not own a .45, but when I did, I used 230 grain exclusively for practice and to carry for self-defense, although I never actually had to use it in self-defense.
Stay away from the +P loads with a short barrel. All it will do is cause more recoil without really added much more velocity. There isn't enough barrel length do burn the extra powder for +P to be very effective.
lonegunman
New member
I agree that the correct bullet weight for 45 ACP should be 230g (though I understand JM Browning initially had it wrong at 200g).
However, it is the will of God (or so I have been told) for all 45's to have a 5 inch barrel as well.
However, it is the will of God (or so I have been told) for all 45's to have a 5 inch barrel as well.
George Helser
New member
DOC,
230gr is ideal for shooting with a suppressor because it is subsonic.
For self defense, the 185gr JHP bullet is far superior in 45 ACP. The 185gr round is more powerful and the higher velocity has greater potential for expansion. 230gr tends to over-penetrate and present an unnecessary risk to innocent bystanders while inflicting lesser damage on your target. Go with 185gr +P ammo unless you are a Navy SEAL shooting suppressed!
Good luck!
Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona
230gr is ideal for shooting with a suppressor because it is subsonic.
For self defense, the 185gr JHP bullet is far superior in 45 ACP. The 185gr round is more powerful and the higher velocity has greater potential for expansion. 230gr tends to over-penetrate and present an unnecessary risk to innocent bystanders while inflicting lesser damage on your target. Go with 185gr +P ammo unless you are a Navy SEAL shooting suppressed!
Good luck!
Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
I bought a 45ACP just so I could shoot 230 grain ammo. Sure, I have messed around with other stuff I got cheap, but I will only stock 230 grain ammo for it. If I was going to go with 185 grain, I think I'd cut it by 5 more grain and use 180 grain 40S&W.
1911A1 fan
New member
In the shorter tubed gun like yours I would go with the 185gr from Cor-bon or the XTP which has always given me REAL groups and have done a fine job on white-tail deer. I just don't trust the 230gr. to expand in anything less than a 5" gun. Hope you don't need it. Stay safe. 1911A1fan
lonegunman
New member
George Helser: exactly what are you basing your opinion of the superiority of 185 over 230 g???
Love the .45ACP, big believer in 230gr.
Have just tried 185gr (golden sabers) for the first time last week due to fatigue from shooting my 3" Kimber aluminum frame. Feels a lot more comfortable now.
With Government & Commander sized, I'll never give up the 230gr. hardball or HP.
Have just tried 185gr (golden sabers) for the first time last week due to fatigue from shooting my 3" Kimber aluminum frame. Feels a lot more comfortable now.
With Government & Commander sized, I'll never give up the 230gr. hardball or HP.
Here we go again! 
Can't help myself. Havent posted in months but I still look in on all you guys.
The hivel 185gr vs slower 230 seems almost to be a religious thing. Either you buy into the better penetration theory of a heavier bullet or the increased energy and expansion reliability of the faster one.
I am not sure off the top of my head how long that Taurus is, but generally a high-charge round doesnt get much out of a short barrel, so I would have a tendency to go heavier/slower over a lighter bullet that I have to rely on velocity with.
I think I would also recommend the Golden Saber(230gr, not +P), especially out of the short barrel. The +P probably wont buy you much in velocity, and hte prefailed jacket on the GS seems to like to expand no matter what.
I have used GS and HS in my USP45 and don't really notice and reliability/accuracy difference out to 25yds. Hell, the gun shoots 'em better than I do anyhow.
I suspect that out of a short barrel your key criteria should be reliability and not accuracy.
J.T.
YMMV, FWIW, IMHO, and all that!
Can't help myself. Havent posted in months but I still look in on all you guys.
The hivel 185gr vs slower 230 seems almost to be a religious thing. Either you buy into the better penetration theory of a heavier bullet or the increased energy and expansion reliability of the faster one.
I am not sure off the top of my head how long that Taurus is, but generally a high-charge round doesnt get much out of a short barrel, so I would have a tendency to go heavier/slower over a lighter bullet that I have to rely on velocity with.
I think I would also recommend the Golden Saber(230gr, not +P), especially out of the short barrel. The +P probably wont buy you much in velocity, and hte prefailed jacket on the GS seems to like to expand no matter what.
I have used GS and HS in my USP45 and don't really notice and reliability/accuracy difference out to 25yds. Hell, the gun shoots 'em better than I do anyhow.
I suspect that out of a short barrel your key criteria should be reliability and not accuracy.
J.T.
YMMV, FWIW, IMHO, and all that!
George Helser
New member
lonegunman,
Your asked:
“ George Helser: exactly what are you basing your opinion of the superiority of 185 over 230 g???”
Please study the numbers:
a) Which bullet can 45ACP propel to the max power? ANS: 185 gr
b) Which bullet has the highest potential for expansion? ANS: 185 gr
230 gr has lower power and less potential for expansion so it is less effective for self defense. Do you think less powerful, less shocking and less expansion is better???
If you need to shoot subsonic ammo cause you are shooting suppressed for quiet then the most effective round will be the largest diameter and heaviest bullet available. 45 ACP 230 gr fits this situation better than other common handgun rounds.
Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona
Your asked:
“ George Helser: exactly what are you basing your opinion of the superiority of 185 over 230 g???”
Please study the numbers:
a) Which bullet can 45ACP propel to the max power? ANS: 185 gr
b) Which bullet has the highest potential for expansion? ANS: 185 gr
230 gr has lower power and less potential for expansion so it is less effective for self defense. Do you think less powerful, less shocking and less expansion is better???
If you need to shoot subsonic ammo cause you are shooting suppressed for quiet then the most effective round will be the largest diameter and heaviest bullet available. 45 ACP 230 gr fits this situation better than other common handgun rounds.
Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona
George Helser
New member
blades67,
Physics was my best subject in school. KE = 1/2 MV2
Every bullet has inertia. I am talking about power (KE = 1/2 MV2) and potential for expansion (velocity).
Every caliber has an optimum bullet weight for power. In 45 ACP, with the powders available today, 185 gr bullets are superior to 230 gr bullets for power. With the 185 gr bullet having higher velocity, it also has higher potential for expansion compared to 230 gr in 45 ACP.
How can you DREAM that a less powerful, less shocking and less expanding 230 gr 45 ACP is more effective than a faster and more powerful 185 gr bullet???
230 gr is famous on the battlefield cause it will penetrate several troops standing in a row. For self defense, I would not use 230 gr 45 ACP because it will penetrate my target and potentially strike innocents downrange.
Good luck!
Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona
Physics was my best subject in school. KE = 1/2 MV2
Every bullet has inertia. I am talking about power (KE = 1/2 MV2) and potential for expansion (velocity).
Every caliber has an optimum bullet weight for power. In 45 ACP, with the powders available today, 185 gr bullets are superior to 230 gr bullets for power. With the 185 gr bullet having higher velocity, it also has higher potential for expansion compared to 230 gr in 45 ACP.
How can you DREAM that a less powerful, less shocking and less expanding 230 gr 45 ACP is more effective than a faster and more powerful 185 gr bullet???
230 gr is famous on the battlefield cause it will penetrate several troops standing in a row. For self defense, I would not use 230 gr 45 ACP because it will penetrate my target and potentially strike innocents downrange.
Good luck!
Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona
George - KE won't get a lightweight bullet through heavy bone and into the vital organs. If all that was needed to turn the lights out was more velocity, there wouldn't be any need for 500 grain solids for the 458 Win Mag, just the 405 grain slugs pushed faster. However, that wouldn't get the job done because of insufficient penetration, which is a function of inertia. Moving at the same speed, the heavier bullet is better, so I load the heaviest bullet with as much velocity as can be done safely.
George Helser
New member
blades67,
You said:
“KE won't get a lightweight bullet through heavy bone and into the vital organs.”
Huh?????????????
What????????????
Duh????????????
Just look at the lightest bullet used by the US Military. The original M16/AR15 fired a .22 caliber bullet weighing 55gr at about 3200 fps. It is an EXTREMELY effective self defense round.
Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona
P.S. If you “feel” 230 gr bullets (or organic bullets or recycled bullets or green bullets) are magically better than more effective bullets in 45 ACP that is your choice. I am stating the facts in order to help some make a more informed choice when selecting life saving ammo.
You said:
“KE won't get a lightweight bullet through heavy bone and into the vital organs.”
Huh?????????????
What????????????
Duh????????????
Just look at the lightest bullet used by the US Military. The original M16/AR15 fired a .22 caliber bullet weighing 55gr at about 3200 fps. It is an EXTREMELY effective self defense round.
Regards,
George
In sunny Arizona
P.S. If you “feel” 230 gr bullets (or organic bullets or recycled bullets or green bullets) are magically better than more effective bullets in 45 ACP that is your choice. I am stating the facts in order to help some make a more informed choice when selecting life saving ammo.