22LR for self defense
- Thread starter Ar15M4
- Start date
My wife carries a NAA 22LR in a special pocket in her purse. But that's kinda of a back up for the KelTec IWB
When out in yard I some times have my ASTRA CUB in 22 short in my pocket . Neither a the NAA or the Astra a power house . But bet no one wants shot with one.
Their are lot better rounds for SD 380 up
When out in yard I some times have my ASTRA CUB in 22 short in my pocket . Neither a the NAA or the Astra a power house . But bet no one wants shot with one.
Their are lot better rounds for SD 380 up
I have heard the Israeli Mossad (kinda of like their CIA) uses .22lr handguns for some of their stuff. This obviously cannot be corroborated, but I've read it on multiple sources.
But that's the Israeli Mossad. If you're willing to train to the level of an Israeli Mossad agent, then you can carry whatever the hell you want because you will be lethal with it.
You can also buy "hollow point" .22's. I put it in quotes because the ones that I've seen have had what looks like a pin-sized hole drilled into the top. They don't look like your normal 9mm JHP. I've never used them so I don't know their effectiveness.
But anyways, if you're willing to train on a .22lr then by all means, carry that. Think of how much better off you would be should you ever decide to up your caliber to a more standard defense round. I know I wish I could a carry something nice and light and cheap to shoot as a .22.
But that's the Israeli Mossad. If you're willing to train to the level of an Israeli Mossad agent, then you can carry whatever the hell you want because you will be lethal with it.
You can also buy "hollow point" .22's. I put it in quotes because the ones that I've seen have had what looks like a pin-sized hole drilled into the top. They don't look like your normal 9mm JHP. I've never used them so I don't know their effectiveness.
But anyways, if you're willing to train on a .22lr then by all means, carry that. Think of how much better off you would be should you ever decide to up your caliber to a more standard defense round. I know I wish I could a carry something nice and light and cheap to shoot as a .22.
comn-cents
New member
I have CCW 22lr in the past, i always felt confident with it. My wife doesn't CCW but for home defence she uses a Ruger 10/22. She doesn't like recoil at all. I've tried many different guns but she doesn't feel comfortable with any of them.
I've carried a .22LR in the past, when lacking other options.
The general consensus to this question is probably that it's far from the best handgun round of self-defense, in fact it's much closer to the bottom than to the top, but if it's all you've got and/or all you can handle, then use it!
There's a lot of things to consider when weighing the pros and cons. Pros include the fact that it's the cheapest round out there, you can get 500 rounds for the price of 50 round of certain other calibers, this allows you a lot of practice/training, which I suppose you will need if you're gonna rely on small caliber. Another upside is the mild recoil allows for fast, accurate follow up shots.. that's always import but even more so with a small caliber. Lastly, the round lends itself to very compact, easy to conceal firearms... you simply cannot make a .40 as small as some .22's are.
The most obvious con is that the round is relatively weak. They say just about any handgun round is a poor manstopper, but as already established, the .22LR is pretty close to bottom of the barrel. The other concern is that ignition just isn't nearly as reliable as with center-fire rounds. Some brands are better than others of course but duds are quite common. With center-fire ammo... duds are quite a rarity even amongst the cheapest brands.
The general consensus to this question is probably that it's far from the best handgun round of self-defense, in fact it's much closer to the bottom than to the top, but if it's all you've got and/or all you can handle, then use it!
There's a lot of things to consider when weighing the pros and cons. Pros include the fact that it's the cheapest round out there, you can get 500 rounds for the price of 50 round of certain other calibers, this allows you a lot of practice/training, which I suppose you will need if you're gonna rely on small caliber. Another upside is the mild recoil allows for fast, accurate follow up shots.. that's always import but even more so with a small caliber. Lastly, the round lends itself to very compact, easy to conceal firearms... you simply cannot make a .40 as small as some .22's are.
The most obvious con is that the round is relatively weak. They say just about any handgun round is a poor manstopper, but as already established, the .22LR is pretty close to bottom of the barrel. The other concern is that ignition just isn't nearly as reliable as with center-fire rounds. Some brands are better than others of course but duds are quite common. With center-fire ammo... duds are quite a rarity even amongst the cheapest brands.
carguychris
New member
I think the stories are apocryphal, but they've been so widely parroted that they'll probably never go away.
Most high-velocity .22LR hollowpoints won't attain adequate velocity to expand when fired from a short pistol barrel. Hyper-velocity hollowpoints might expand, but IMHO it's iffy, and you're going to want one of the few loads that come with 40gr bullets rather than 29-32gr bullets, because the lighter bullets won't penetrate as well if expansion fails. (40gr hyper-velocity loads include CCI Velocitors and Aguila Interceptors.)
My opinion? You're best served with high-velocity solids.
FWIW based on my informal water-jug testing, high-velocity hollowpoints actually expand very reliably when launched from a rifle.
Con #3 is that the round is poorly shaped for proper feeding from a high-capacity magazine, so the capacity of most .22LR handguns is limited, a serious concern with a round so low-powered that multiple follow-up shots are mandatory.
My overall opinion is that .32ACP and .32 S&W Long are the best of the low-recoil mousegun rounds, with .25ACP and .22WMR tied for second, and .22LR a distant third.
Kreyzhorse
New member
I'm torn on the .22lr as a SD round. It can do the job and having a gun, even a .22lr, is better than not having a gun.
With that said, while .22lr ammo is generally cheaper than all other handgun ammo, there is no real reason to carry a .22lr for SD. There are are ton of so called mouse guns out there chambered in .25, .32, .380 and even 9mm (granted, .25, .32 and .380 has failings too as generally accepted SD rounds).
With so many choices in small easily concealed guns, I can't think why anyone would pick a .22lr as SD round. Granted, for people that are recoil shy, it's a good option and again, its better than nothing. However, if you are going to bother to carry a gun, carry a gun that gives you the best chance of survival. You want a round that is going to open up as big a hole as possible and I don't thnk, all things being equal, a .22lr does that.
If a .22lr is all you can afford or all that you can physically shoot, buy all means carry one. If you can handle something with more recoil and have the cash flow, bigger is better.
Now, I'll also confess that the smallest SD round I carry is a .380 and that is not without its critics either but in the very least carry something that is reliable and accurate and you are confortable with.
With that said, while .22lr ammo is generally cheaper than all other handgun ammo, there is no real reason to carry a .22lr for SD. There are are ton of so called mouse guns out there chambered in .25, .32, .380 and even 9mm (granted, .25, .32 and .380 has failings too as generally accepted SD rounds).
With so many choices in small easily concealed guns, I can't think why anyone would pick a .22lr as SD round. Granted, for people that are recoil shy, it's a good option and again, its better than nothing. However, if you are going to bother to carry a gun, carry a gun that gives you the best chance of survival. You want a round that is going to open up as big a hole as possible and I don't thnk, all things being equal, a .22lr does that.
If a .22lr is all you can afford or all that you can physically shoot, buy all means carry one. If you can handle something with more recoil and have the cash flow, bigger is better.
Now, I'll also confess that the smallest SD round I carry is a .380 and that is not without its critics either but in the very least carry something that is reliable and accurate and you are confortable with.
Last edited:
The .22lr is appropriate for carry when you have no better option for whatever reason.
There's nothing apocryphal about the Mossad's use of the .22 lr. They were used on suppressed Beretta's by the "death squads" sent out by the Israelis following the events at the Munich Olympics most notably.
For the matter, the use of .22lr's by covert agencies of many nations is well documented. The Hi Standard HDM in suppressed form was most famously carried by Francis Gary Powers on his ill fated U2 flight.
When it comes to covert use, it should be remembered that the .22, especially if the mag is dumped, is a much better killer than it is a stopper.
gary
There's nothing apocryphal about the Mossad's use of the .22 lr. They were used on suppressed Beretta's by the "death squads" sent out by the Israelis following the events at the Munich Olympics most notably.
For the matter, the use of .22lr's by covert agencies of many nations is well documented. The Hi Standard HDM in suppressed form was most famously carried by Francis Gary Powers on his ill fated U2 flight.
When it comes to covert use, it should be remembered that the .22, especially if the mag is dumped, is a much better killer than it is a stopper.
gary
At least it meets rule number 1 of a gun fight. Better than nothing. In a rifle it will expand. Results from Brass Fetcher are interesting http://www.brassfetcher.com/var22lrrifle.html
http://www.brassfetcher.com/WaltherP22test.html
http://www.brassfetcher.com/22minis.html
When you get down to the NAAs I would rather have pepper spray.
The 3.4" barrel of the Walther makes a big difference.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/WaltherP22test.html
http://www.brassfetcher.com/22minis.html
When you get down to the NAAs I would rather have pepper spray.
The 3.4" barrel of the Walther makes a big difference.
Last edited:
The well argued misconception about the 22LR not being a good S.D. round is not warranted.The facts are that accuracy and placement are the key factors in self defense.I have on occasion carried my Buckmark and I have no doubt that if (God forbid) the need should arise I would have no problem in killing a bad guy. 10 rounds of 1300 f.p.s. hollow point ammo,well placed, would leave little doubt..I.M.H.O
hardworker
New member
It's not a powerhouse by any means, but I'm a firm believer that the presence of gun will stop most threats, the shots will stop most of the ones that the sight of the gun alone won't stop. Most likely, the guy you're shooting at won't be trying to deduce what kind of gun he's being shot at with, more likely he'll be trying to get out of the way.
I've tried the Aguila, 60 grain subsonic round on coconuts at relatively close range, and it is a surprisingly good penatrator. Not many people have heads harder to penetrate than a coconut. It will go much deeper on soft flesh, and get to critical organs quite well. I'm not advocating it for self defense, but if nothing else is available, or usable by someone for some reason, it's much better than nothing.
EarlFH
EarlFH
My biggest concern with a .22 would be reliability. The combination of heel-based bullets and rimfire primers simply does not make for the most reliable ignition system. Were I to carry a .22, I would do so in a revolver so that a misfire can be addressed with another pull of the trigger.
Baba Louie
New member
This
I suppose a .22 beats whistling Dixie or chucking rocks, but bigger is usually better. Ya gotta run whatcha brung so get good with whatever it is, hoping to avoid trouble.
I've read that .22's are one of the primary, if not THE primary fatal round most commonly used in homicides in the U.S. and while I cannot back that assertion up with facts, it does stand to reason (lots of them out there, easy to shoot, cheap to feed).
Downside is a bad guy Bubba cranked up on coke or meth or whathaveyou who doesn't feel the pain, is intent on harming you and needs to "bleed out" whilst invoking havoc your direction.
I suppose a .22 beats whistling Dixie or chucking rocks, but bigger is usually better. Ya gotta run whatcha brung so get good with whatever it is, hoping to avoid trouble.
I've read that .22's are one of the primary, if not THE primary fatal round most commonly used in homicides in the U.S. and while I cannot back that assertion up with facts, it does stand to reason (lots of them out there, easy to shoot, cheap to feed).
I'm curiuous how many of you have actually had a 22 rimfire cartridge, misfire? I keep hearing these stories, about how bad they are, but I have been shooting for over 40 years, and have never had one misfire, or had any friends tell me that they have had a misfire. I'm beginning to think this is more of an urban myth, than anyting else. I'm not interested in hearsay, but only actual hands on experience. I've had plenty of misfires shooting old military cartridges, but never a 22 rimfire.
EarlFH
EarlFH
I wouldn't recomend a .22, but if that is your only option and or what your comfortable with than I can understand.
Personally I would take a .22 before I would take a .25 or .32.
However I think I would load it with quality hyper velocity FMJ's so you still can get SOME penetration.
I would be a little nervous about using it here in the PA winters with people covered in a lot of heavy layers of clothing.
In my opinion if recoil is the issue, I would look into the FN 5.7. Low recoil in a caliber that can penetrate.... about the only reason for that gun to exist.... but it comes with a HEFTY price tag for being 95% plastic.
Personally I would take a .22 before I would take a .25 or .32.
However I think I would load it with quality hyper velocity FMJ's so you still can get SOME penetration.
I would be a little nervous about using it here in the PA winters with people covered in a lot of heavy layers of clothing.
In my opinion if recoil is the issue, I would look into the FN 5.7. Low recoil in a caliber that can penetrate.... about the only reason for that gun to exist.... but it comes with a HEFTY price tag for being 95% plastic.
comn-cents
New member
Earl
I have had the same amount of rimfire & centerfire misfires. Maybe 4 or 5 of each. Misfire wouldn't be my reason for not carrying a rimfire.
I have had the same amount of rimfire & centerfire misfires. Maybe 4 or 5 of each. Misfire wouldn't be my reason for not carrying a rimfire.