.22 or 9mm for beginner
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marine6680
New member
I think learning on a 22lr is the way to go for anyone who has little to no firearms experience.
But... a person can learn on a 9mm or larger, its just that the learning curve is longer. A 22lr can help you learn the fundamentals much quicker.
It is also dependent on the person in question that is learning, some can handle starting on a centerfire better than others. I have seen people at the range, struggling with a 9mm, I hand them a 22 and groups immediately shrink.
22lr ammo can be harder to come by, but the stock is building back, at least where I am at. Prices are still higher, but it sits on the shelf for days now... Though, if the price is low, the stock does go quickly. As people begin to realize the supply is there, and that it just needs a little bit of smart buying (read, less rushes) to get the shelves full and prices down, it will get better.
223/556 was hard to come by not long back, but now I am seeing it for prices lower than a couple years ago quite often.
Some say if you start with a 22, you will just sell it to get something bigger... I think that is a little short sighted. As having a 22 in your possession is always a good thing, one should not sell the 22, they should keep it and get a second firearm when ready.
I have been shooting most of my life, and I still love/enjoy a good 22 pistol or rifle. They are fun, and still cheaper to shoot than other options. In general, great target/range guns. Quieter, which is good, though ear plugs are still needed. Great for pest control as well, if you live in the country and need such a thing.
For not a lot of money, you can have a very mechanically accurate 22 pistol. (like the Ruger or Browning) With something like that, any issues in group size can be attributed to the shooter, meaning less doubt on whether it is the gun at fault for poor aim. (this is something many do, blame the gun)
But... a person can learn on a 9mm or larger, its just that the learning curve is longer. A 22lr can help you learn the fundamentals much quicker.
It is also dependent on the person in question that is learning, some can handle starting on a centerfire better than others. I have seen people at the range, struggling with a 9mm, I hand them a 22 and groups immediately shrink.
22lr ammo can be harder to come by, but the stock is building back, at least where I am at. Prices are still higher, but it sits on the shelf for days now... Though, if the price is low, the stock does go quickly. As people begin to realize the supply is there, and that it just needs a little bit of smart buying (read, less rushes) to get the shelves full and prices down, it will get better.
223/556 was hard to come by not long back, but now I am seeing it for prices lower than a couple years ago quite often.
Some say if you start with a 22, you will just sell it to get something bigger... I think that is a little short sighted. As having a 22 in your possession is always a good thing, one should not sell the 22, they should keep it and get a second firearm when ready.
I have been shooting most of my life, and I still love/enjoy a good 22 pistol or rifle. They are fun, and still cheaper to shoot than other options. In general, great target/range guns. Quieter, which is good, though ear plugs are still needed. Great for pest control as well, if you live in the country and need such a thing.
For not a lot of money, you can have a very mechanically accurate 22 pistol. (like the Ruger or Browning) With something like that, any issues in group size can be attributed to the shooter, meaning less doubt on whether it is the gun at fault for poor aim. (this is something many do, blame the gun)
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Cheapshooter
New member
Code:
22 is good for nothing.
Do the police train with 22lr? NO
Do the military train soldiers initially with 22lr before shooting 5.56mm nato? NOComplete nonsense straight out of the mall ninja handbook!
LE, and military have plenty of our tax dollars to train with more costly ammunition.
Evil Monkey
New member
a 22lr pistol and a 40sw pistol are not that different from one another except for the recoil. Big freaking deal.
Like one poster said, all the OP is going to end up doing is selling that POS 22lr for a potential loss and buy a medium caliber pistol.
SAY NO TO 22's.
Those that are advocating not starting with a .22 obviously have some kind of issues. Those of us that are real gun enthusiasts have no problem with having one or more .22s in our gunlocker as they will always get some use and we know that a Mark I for example holds its value.
Darker Loaf
New member
I agree with what people are saying about .22 LR in terms keeping on. You don't just "graduate" from a caliber and have no use when you "up gun" to something larger. Different calibers have different purposes, and .22 LR is worth having just to give to new shooters. What people are missing about what I said about .22 LR being "safer" is not in terms of physical HARM but not turning off someone to shooting. The worst thing to do to a new potential shooter is to scare them off with a barky .357... for some people starting off with even a 9mm is enough to turn them off to shooting entirely and forever.
You might say, "Well, they are wussy. We don't want them to be shooters." This is faulty logic as YES we DO want them to be shooters! The more people to accept shooting as a fun, normal activity the better.
And the logic of skipping .22 LR because "that's what they do in the X," X being police or military, is also faulty. I actually started shooting on BB gun. I used to shoot a carton of 5,000 BB's a week. All of the principles of shooting are there with a BB gun. I attribute some of my skill to this practice early on in life. The more time on ANY kind of trigger will result in a better shooter, period. Heck, if you sat down and practiced with a good airsoft gun, you'd get better, too. While I respect the experience and training of police and military, it does not mean they are the best shooters in the world or even the best trained shooters.
And this all comes from a person who hates .22 LR now (for all the problems I've had with the platform in semi-auto form). A .22 LR in pistol and in rifle is a basic part of any gun collection. Speaking of which, you'd also do well if you got a revolver in .22 LR. Learn shooting .22 LR with a double action trigger and every other trigger will seem easy in comparison.
You might say, "Well, they are wussy. We don't want them to be shooters." This is faulty logic as YES we DO want them to be shooters! The more people to accept shooting as a fun, normal activity the better.
And the logic of skipping .22 LR because "that's what they do in the X," X being police or military, is also faulty. I actually started shooting on BB gun. I used to shoot a carton of 5,000 BB's a week. All of the principles of shooting are there with a BB gun. I attribute some of my skill to this practice early on in life. The more time on ANY kind of trigger will result in a better shooter, period. Heck, if you sat down and practiced with a good airsoft gun, you'd get better, too. While I respect the experience and training of police and military, it does not mean they are the best shooters in the world or even the best trained shooters.
And this all comes from a person who hates .22 LR now (for all the problems I've had with the platform in semi-auto form). A .22 LR in pistol and in rifle is a basic part of any gun collection. Speaking of which, you'd also do well if you got a revolver in .22 LR. Learn shooting .22 LR with a double action trigger and every other trigger will seem easy in comparison.
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Microgunner
New member
My girlfriend loves shooting rimfires and nothing else.
If not for starting with rimfires she'd have never joined the ranks.
I'd much rather her be a rimfire shooter than a non-shooter.
If not for starting with rimfires she'd have never joined the ranks.
I'd much rather her be a rimfire shooter than a non-shooter.
Even this simple thread turns into a peeing thread and I can read the individuals posts and instantly know what they look like as I have seen so many in the deckades that I have been going to gunshops as I run into two or three every time. A .22 has always been inexpensive for practice and always will be. If it wasn't the manufacturers would not make them in the same style as as their larger bore brethrin. Yes .22 has become a bit harder to come by but it is available and it was sitting on the shelf at Cabellas today when I was in. After deckades of shooting I still use my.22s I hunt coyotes with a hundred year old Winchester Model 90 or I shoot bottles floating in the drain ditch with one of my H&Rs simpy because it is good practice and still cheep.
Evil Monkey - I can't speak for the agencies in your area, but back in the '90s when our budget was being cut I started using the 22 LR to train officers who had difficulty qualifying with their service weapon. The fundamentals of marksmanship, sight picture, hold, trigger squeeze doesn't change with caliber. Remember there was an Olympic champion from Japan who because guns were prohibited in Japan trained with an airgun. BTW, I wrote an article that was published by IALEFI back in the '90s on the viability of the 22 LR as a training tool. Of late, I've been seeing quite a few articles in SWAT Magazine on LE agencies using the 22 as a low cost method of training.
I doubt if the officer marksmanship has improved or that budgets have been increased such that all training may be conducted with duty ammunition. That would be the ideal situation but ammunition shortages are problematic for agencies too (as well as high demand for 22 LR).
Another member mentioned the CZ-75 with the Kadet conversion kit. I wholeheartedly agree with its viability as a trainer and in its bigger bore version, as a self defense firearm.
One final point. As a self-defense firearm, I'd rather have a person who is competent with a 22 LR defend him/herself with it and put the bullets into the assailant than miss with a 380/38 Special/357 Magnum/9mm/40/45/10mm/etc.
Everyone, please keep this civil. It's OK to disagree with another's opinion, but don't personally attack another member because you disagree.
I doubt if the officer marksmanship has improved or that budgets have been increased such that all training may be conducted with duty ammunition. That would be the ideal situation but ammunition shortages are problematic for agencies too (as well as high demand for 22 LR).
Another member mentioned the CZ-75 with the Kadet conversion kit. I wholeheartedly agree with its viability as a trainer and in its bigger bore version, as a self defense firearm.
One final point. As a self-defense firearm, I'd rather have a person who is competent with a 22 LR defend him/herself with it and put the bullets into the assailant than miss with a 380/38 Special/357 Magnum/9mm/40/45/10mm/etc.
Everyone, please keep this civil. It's OK to disagree with another's opinion, but don't personally attack another member because you disagree.
Darker Loaf
New member
Maybe everyone who is bashing .22 LR as a throwaway caliber just have lots and lots of trigger time on high quality airguns and they felt they could skip that caliber.... 
Nope. Sigh.
I've heard of people calibrating airgun's fps's to match distances in their basement to ranges that simulate the bullet drop of full caliber rifles in relative indoor distances to practice deer hunting or even long range shooting. All the major principles of shooting are there with an airgun.
If you do go .22 LR route, just make sure to not skimp on the gun. It's better to buy an expensive gun that works well and shoots cheap ammo than to buy a cheap gun that shoots expensive (centerfire) ammo. If you are a real shooting enthusiast or you simply just want to be a competent shooter, your pocketbook will thank you later and you will be a better shooter for it. Later on you will be able to smile as the centerfire purists the lane over will be jerking their trigger and flinching, while you drill the bull's eye.
I agree with what marine6680 said in that learning on a centerfire gun will work fine too, but the learning curve will likely be longer. Imagine learning on a 10mm instead of a 9mm? You would fire less bullets because 10mm is spendy, and you'd be more likely to be scared of your gun initially. And because the caliber is expensive, your bad habits would likely remain fossilized because you'd never shoot enough in a short enough amount of time to overcome your bad habits. Or if you really want to take years to learn how to shoot well, shoot something like .44 mag or better still .500 S&W. 9mm is fine--in fact its my favorite pistol caliber, but the advantage is still there for a new shooter in .22 LR.
Nope. Sigh.I've heard of people calibrating airgun's fps's to match distances in their basement to ranges that simulate the bullet drop of full caliber rifles in relative indoor distances to practice deer hunting or even long range shooting. All the major principles of shooting are there with an airgun.
If you do go .22 LR route, just make sure to not skimp on the gun. It's better to buy an expensive gun that works well and shoots cheap ammo than to buy a cheap gun that shoots expensive (centerfire) ammo. If you are a real shooting enthusiast or you simply just want to be a competent shooter, your pocketbook will thank you later and you will be a better shooter for it. Later on you will be able to smile as the centerfire purists the lane over will be jerking their trigger and flinching, while you drill the bull's eye.
I agree with what marine6680 said in that learning on a centerfire gun will work fine too, but the learning curve will likely be longer. Imagine learning on a 10mm instead of a 9mm? You would fire less bullets because 10mm is spendy, and you'd be more likely to be scared of your gun initially. And because the caliber is expensive, your bad habits would likely remain fossilized because you'd never shoot enough in a short enough amount of time to overcome your bad habits. Or if you really want to take years to learn how to shoot well, shoot something like .44 mag or better still .500 S&W. 9mm is fine--in fact its my favorite pistol caliber, but the advantage is still there for a new shooter in .22 LR.
Cheapshooter
New member
Now THAT'S some Hy-Larious stuff right there!
Even with the crazy high prices today, when was the last time, if ever that you could get 500 rounds of practice ammo in 40 S&W for under fifty bucks?
More mall ninja nonsense.
I started with a .38/.357 mag. S&W M19
I made a bunch of noise with a .22 for a while, then got serious and got a centerfire, learned how to shoot and reloaded.
After that, I went back to a .22 because of the challenge of shooting it well.
The mistaken belief is that a .22 is a beginners gun. It's not. It's for expert and above only for any serious shooting.
I made a bunch of noise with a .22 for a while, then got serious and got a centerfire, learned how to shoot and reloaded.
After that, I went back to a .22 because of the challenge of shooting it well.
The mistaken belief is that a .22 is a beginners gun. It's not. It's for expert and above only for any serious shooting.
Cheapshooter
New member
Good to know that multiple millions of people all learned on the wrong gun!
ROTFL
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ninjarealist
New member
I know this is the pistol forum but FWIW I learned to shoot with 12 and 20 Gauge Shotguns on airborne clay targets. Then I learned to shoot .270 bolt rifles. I was instructed on both of these by family friends. I self-taught myself pistol shooting with a .38 and then a .40
Cheapshooter
New member
It's not that learning with a centerfire can't be done. Or that a rimfire is the only proper way to learn. It's just that learning to shoot with a 22, like many millions of shooters have done is certainly a viable, and more economical option.
Being more economical means in most cases more practice which in turn leads to better performance.
A 22 is not a learn, and discard tool. They are always a fun, and economical source of recreation, and practice.
But of course to some a handgun is not for recreation. They are only for "serious" use in hopes they get to shoot somebody!
Being more economical means in most cases more practice which in turn leads to better performance.
A 22 is not a learn, and discard tool. They are always a fun, and economical source of recreation, and practice.
But of course to some a handgun is not for recreation. They are only for "serious" use in hopes they get to shoot somebody!
marine6680
New member
As I said... It is highly dependent on the individual.
I introduce children to shooting with a 22, as to ensure the recoil is not too much. Adults get a 22 for a few mags to access their ability, if I feel they can handle a larger caliber, then I hand them a 9mm. I have frequently seen the flinch develop after moving to the 9mm, and switching back to 22 for a few mags helped get rid of it before it became habit.
That is were an experienced shooter comes in handy for beginners. I expect a beginner to not group the best, but if switching to 9mm takes a person from 4 inch groups to 12 inches or more, then there is more training needed on the fundamentals.
As I have said, I seen the opposite of this... A stranger next to me at the range, learning to shoot. Often times they are accompanied by another shooter who is only barely competent... Or simply does not know the sport enough to recognize problems in others shooting. Inevitably they are shooting a rental or the friends pistol, usually a 9mm, usually a duty focused pistol, striker fired.
Groups are all over the place... Looks like someone shot the target at 15+ yards with a cylinder bore loaded with cheap 0 buck.
I hand them a 22 and say "try this"... Groups shrink quickly, 4-6 inches is not bad for a starting beginner who has been handicapped by poor teaching.
While a 22lr can be difficult to master, they are not difficult to at least become decently proficient. They are great beginner guns.
I started young with a red rider bb gun, shooting leafs from trees. (Hit the leaf's stem, make it fall) And I had access to my mothers little browning semi 22 rifle. So long as I had a parent with me.
I quickly showed responsibility and proficiency, I became entrusted with the care of the rifle. Cleaning and maintaining it...
I was a little younger than 10.
I introduce children to shooting with a 22, as to ensure the recoil is not too much. Adults get a 22 for a few mags to access their ability, if I feel they can handle a larger caliber, then I hand them a 9mm. I have frequently seen the flinch develop after moving to the 9mm, and switching back to 22 for a few mags helped get rid of it before it became habit.
That is were an experienced shooter comes in handy for beginners. I expect a beginner to not group the best, but if switching to 9mm takes a person from 4 inch groups to 12 inches or more, then there is more training needed on the fundamentals.
As I have said, I seen the opposite of this... A stranger next to me at the range, learning to shoot. Often times they are accompanied by another shooter who is only barely competent... Or simply does not know the sport enough to recognize problems in others shooting. Inevitably they are shooting a rental or the friends pistol, usually a 9mm, usually a duty focused pistol, striker fired.
Groups are all over the place... Looks like someone shot the target at 15+ yards with a cylinder bore loaded with cheap 0 buck.
I hand them a 22 and say "try this"... Groups shrink quickly, 4-6 inches is not bad for a starting beginner who has been handicapped by poor teaching.
While a 22lr can be difficult to master, they are not difficult to at least become decently proficient. They are great beginner guns.
I started young with a red rider bb gun, shooting leafs from trees. (Hit the leaf's stem, make it fall) And I had access to my mothers little browning semi 22 rifle. So long as I had a parent with me.
I quickly showed responsibility and proficiency, I became entrusted with the care of the rifle. Cleaning and maintaining it...
I was a little younger than 10.
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Evil Monkey
New member
Why would you practice with 22lr and carry something else? The whole idea of "practicing" with 22lr is crazy and insane to me. You practice with what you carry. If the pistol purchased is for defense, you need to practice with that. The cost of ammo is the price you pay, no complaining.
OP, this pistol is for yourself right? Just so we're on the same page....