.22 LR vs. 32 ACP for Self-Defense

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While I think it's unfortunate that someone resurrected a twenty year old thread, I held out hope that the discussion might go in the direction intended by the perpetrator of the resurrection. So far, there has been a lot of the typical caliber war opinionating, but a complete lack of any useful information.

Unless someone posts some actual data, such as comparative testing results and/or comparative photos of .22 and .32 shot into ballistics gel, this discussion is going to be reinterred.
 
I would not advise either for primary carry.
That said, I feel quite comfortable with just my Beretta 21A for last-ditch up close and personal self-defense. I have NEVER had a 22 rimfire fail to fire on the 2nd strike (and VERY few fail on the 1st strike) and the 21A affords a 2nd strike simply by pulling the trigger again. I have no doubt AT ALL that I can put 9 rounds in a perp's forehead at 7 yards with my 21A in under 2 seconds and I have no doubt AT ALL that he would drop like a sack of wet manure. My little Beretta lives in the right-hand pocket of my blue jeans in a pocket holster. It is always there. The only time I don't have it is if I don't have my pants on.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
Unless someone posts some actual data, such as comparative testing results and/or comparative photos of .22 and .32 shot into ballistics gel, this discussion is going to be reinterred.
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Do just a little research into how cattle have been routinely dispatched in slaughter houses. One shot to the top of the head with a stubby little .22. I was raised on a cattle ranch where we butchered our own beef. I have personally done exactly that more times than I can count ... both top of the head and front between the eyes. Every time they dropped like a rock. That is all the "empiricle data" I need. A cow's scull is MUCH heavier, thicker and tougher than any man's skull. Shoot some perp in the head at close range with a .22 and he will be trying to talk St. Peter into letting him in. Ballistic gel doesn't tell me a thing. I don't know about the 32, for all I know it might bounce off. But there is no doubt whatsoever about the close-range lethality of a .22 in my non-military mind.

According to this video the .32 penetrates better than the .22 ... so against a man's head at close range both would be lethal.
https://youtu.be/gFReDEVvosc
 
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Just a generalization, but in general
* 25ACP has about the same energy as a 22LR
* 32 has twice the energy of a 22LR
* 380 has about 3X the energy of a 22LR
* 9X19 has about 4X the energy of a 22LR

In years past, the decision of which to carry had to do with the size of the pistol, but there are 9mms on the market today that are smaller than 32s a few decades ago. So the decision has become more complicated. How much recoil can you tolerate? How much weight do you want to put in your pocket? Rimfire cartridge or centerfire? And so on.

Myself. I can do math. That doesn't mean that bigger is always better, but I am in the bigger school. I used to carry a 32 ACP Walther PPK as a pocket gun years ago, so I have no problem with the smaller guns.
 
Another reminder: This thread is about " .22 LR vs. 32 ACP for Self-Defense."

Please stay on topic. THIS discussion is not about .380 ACP, it is not about 9mm, it is not about hunting rifles of any caliber. The OP asked for comparisons of .22LR vs. .32 ACP.
 
Great points brought up by Scorch. The only .22LR pistols I would approach trusting for SD are not as compact as many of the reliable, quality, .32ACP pistols.

Centerfire vs. rimfire is the big wedge issue here. Centerfire wins the reliability test hands down. 100+ years of cartridge improvements in both calibers hasn't really changed that difference.

If you're comparing these 2 rounds, you've already made your decision on how much recoil you want/can work with and these are certainly comparable in that respect. It then comes down to what's going to go boom every time you pull the trigger.
 
Muzzle energy, momentum, and diameter are all important factors in terminal ballistics. .32ACP beats .22LR in all three of those. As to which is better, it is not really a debate. If you want to argue about .22LR being good enough, have at it, but terminal ballistics favors the .32ACP.

Jimku, please go get some training and education on self-defense laws and tactics. Your previous posts show several glaring falsehoods in legal standards and tactics.
 
many gel tests out there from mini guns in each caliber so you can make a comparable study. FMJ is the way to go in small caliber guns, especially with short bbls.
 
raimius said:
Jimku, please go get some training and education on self-defense laws and tactics. Your previous posts show several glaring falsehoods in legal standards and tactics.
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I belong to USCCA. They defend shooters nation-wide. What I am saying is exactly what they have told me. They provide extensive education and training.
If I ever have to use my gun I will do three things: call 911, call USCCA, SHUT UP AND NOT SAY A WORD until their attorney arrives.
The primary goal in self-defense is to stop the attack ... not kill the dude.
One well-placed shot will usually accomplish that. Beyond that and you risk a murder charge.
Senselessly perforating the attacker with 4 - 6 additional holes by emptying your revolver into him will most likely land you in a royal mess.
https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/
https://youtu.be/wLrZ_LR69Ho
https://youtu.be/exQN1X8lFAQ
 
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jimku wrote: One well-placed shot will usually accomplish that. Beyond that and you risk a murder charge.
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Funny that you would mention this since in the news today is a video of and up close and personal shooting involving a LEO. Not only do we have a body cam but we also have a home surveilance system perspective. Link to story / video

Personally I was trained and qualified by a LAPD sergeant who taught us to Mozambique them. I was licensed for several years in Kali for on the job carry. As this video shows, firing once and hoping that you get that stop is not something I personally will bet my life on; especially when carrying a mouse gun. I will always rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.
 
jimku said:
Even if I did buy into the line of stuff quoted, 9 rounds rapid fire at a head at 7 yards has a VERY high probability of at least ONE of them going into the mouth or an eye socket.
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vs.

jimku said:
One well-placed shot will usually accomplish that. Beyond that and you risk a murder charge. Senselessly perforating the attacker with 4 - 6 additional holes by emptying your revolver into him will most likely land you in a royal mess.
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That strikes me as contradictory advice; but there are no shortage of well-documented gunfights that didn’t end even though there was a well-placed shot.
 
so, I am assuming you are talking a very short barreled mouse gun. It would have to be ball ammo for either (or perhaps the fancy lehigh penetrator stuff) due to inadequate penetration with ball let alone hollow point for both. With that being a given 32 is bigger, its centerfire, and it is not rimmed, and it is generally heavier. If I am going to choose a round that is going to under penetrate I would go 32.
 
Shadow: If you look at the luckgunner link and look at the performance of ball out of a 32 Keltech you will find that under penetration is not a problem. Even for a couple flavors of HP you generally (not always) have adequate penetration as well as some expansion. Fiocchi Ball out of a Beretta 81 wil OVERpentrate per the FBI protocol*.

*FBI protocol: something that most keyboard warriors cite but have little to no understanding on WHY and what FOR. The most common citation involves only one of several parts of the protocol.
 
SHR970 said:
Funny that you would mention this since in the news today is a video of and up close and personal shooting involving a LEO. Not only do we have a body cam but we also have a home surveilance system perspective. Link to story / video

Personally I was trained and qualified by a LAPD sergeant who taught us to Mozambique them. I was licensed for several years in Kali for on the job carry. As this video shows, firing once and hoping that you get that stop is not something I personally will bet my life on; especially when carrying a mouse gun. I will always rather be judged by 12 than carried by six.
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Civilians are not police officers. An officer has to apprehend the culprit. All we civilians are actually legally OK to do in self-defense is to stop the attack. Completely different requirements and completely different consequences. And if I am judged by 12 and found guilty of murder, or even simply judged by 12 and bankrupted by legal fees, my life will be ruined and over and I might as well be carried by 6 and very well might end up taking my own life.
 
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Bartholomew Roberts said:
vs.



That strikes me as contradictory advice; but there are no shortage of well-documented gunfights that didn’t end even though there was a well-placed shot.
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Not contradictory at all ... two DIFFERENT SUBJECTS.

One subject: the statement that a little 22 mouse gun can't be lethal unless you hit the bad guy in the eyeball. A completely absurd statement, BUT 9 rounds rapid fire in the face WILL most likely accomplish that.

Next, totally unrelated subject: That one shot is usually all that is required to stop a fight. If I had meant always I would have said always.
 
jimku wroteAll we civilians are actually legally OK to do in self-defense is to stop the attack.
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Did you actually WATCH the video? He made full contact with the officer after 4-5 rounds discharged which required a TAP, RACK, and FIRE drill and a mag dump to STOP the attack.

I don't want to be an Adam Henry but you need to take a critical look at that video once again because she was in full contact with the subject even while retreating and firing. If you can't see it, you are BLIND. He took a full (more than 10 round ) mag to STOP.
 
SHR970 said:
Did you actually WATCH the video? He made full contact with the officer after 4-5 rounds discharged which required a TAP, RACK, and FIRE drill and a mag dump to STOP the attack.

I don't want to be an Adam Henry but you need to take a critical look at that video once again because she was in full contact with the subject even while retreating and firing. If you can't see it, you are BLIND. He took a full (more than 10 round ) mag to STOP.
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OK, I watched the video ... five times. And I have to say ... I can't help it if the cop was a lousy shot and went for all gut shots or "center body mass" in "spray and pray" fashion. Sorry. But that said, yes if the perp has a weapon in his hand you have to keep firiing until he can no longer raise that weapon. But ONE well-placed shot to the HEAD would have STOPPED it in an instant, and all it would have taken in that particular instance given the range and movement was just a little more deliberate better-aimed fire. And no, at no time was there any full contact ... the perp never even touched her or even got within reach of her. And yes, I can understand panic and adrenalin ... but that said, keeping a calm, level head and compete presence of mind is paramount, especially for we civilians.

And no, I don't think you are an Adam Henry. :) I had to look that one up ... thanks for the education. I am not trying to be one either. I deeply respect our police officers and support them 100%, especially given current events, and I am glad the officer survived!

I did have to pull a gun once ... against five thugs intent on dragging a young lady from her car and raping her. I had a S&W model 19 and the five of them just kept deliberately walking towards me. They were only about 5 feet away and I was just starting to squeeze the trigger on the ring leader when I heard a police siren and they turned and beat feet. The patrolman pulled into the parking lot and didn't even take my gun. He told me he was sorry he stopped me 'cause otherwise I might have shot the Adam Henrys and saved the city on-going problems because he knew who they were and all five of them were Class-A Certified #1 Adam Henrys constantly hurting people.
 
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