22 LR accuracy

I got to talk to the 2010 Camp Perry Small Bore Irons national champ, Charles Kemp, and ask rookie class questions. Mr Kemp claimed that the rifle he used in 2010 would give consistent ten shot groups of 0.38” at 100 yards. That was with the favorite ammunition for that rifle. The rifle was based on around a Win M52 action, Benchmark barrel, and I think a Carl Bernosky stock. http://www.carlbernosky.com/index.html

Mr Kemp, Camp Perry 2010




In 2011 or 2012 I asked Mr Kemp about the rifle he was using that year, he had sold the 2010 Rifle. This rifle would group ten shots at 100 yards in 0.440 inches.

I found that Mr Kemp extensively tested his ammunition. He has a mechanical rifle rest, tests ammunition in the morning, before the breezes began, and when setting his tuner, he put targets out close in front of the rifle. He said these targets were one foot apart from 8 to 14 feet. He would examine the close in targets for evidence of bullet tipping. He would adjust the tuner (and I think the ammunition) till all groups were round and no bullet tipping was evident. It took about 2000 to 3000 rounds of the rifle’s favorite ammunition to set the tuner. Now assume he was shooting red box Tennex, which was the ammunition he won with in 2010, and it costs about $1850 a case, so he spends from $700 to $1000 just adjusting the tuner!

At the end of this, he has a combination of a rifle and ammunition that he is confident will hold half the X ring out to 100 yards.

After years of trying, I am finally shooting ten X cleans at 100 yards, this was done prone with a sling in a small bore match. And I am going to keep on trying till I shoot a 200-20X on one target.



 
I don't know the formal definition of a tuner but from what I have seen it is a donut shaped piece of metal that you move up and down the barrel. This effects barrel vibrations.
 
Standard American Eagle rimfires will produce less than half that at 100 yards through my Ruger Target/Tactical with bull barrel.

I'd have to dig out my notes for exact figures, that round wasn't the absolute best through the gun, but it was the most consistent & does well enough to make it my regular round in that gun.
Denis
 
Slamfire, consistent ten shot groups of 0.38” at 100 yards sounds fishy. I don't know of any rifle nor ammo that shoots consistant size 3, 5 or 10 shot groups. They may average that, or have that as a mean radius, but I doubt they're all the same size to 1/100th of an inch extreme spread.
 
My 22's aren't high dollar. I have a remington 597 with a Walmart special tasco scope and it shoots 3/4" at 100 yards all day long. I dont claim to be an expert marksman.
 
Slamfire, consistent ten shot groups of 0.38” at 100 yards sounds fishy. I don't know of any rifle nor ammo that shoots consistant size 3, 5 or 10 shot groups. They may average that, or have that as a mean radius, but I doubt they're all the same size to 1/100th of an inch extreme spread.
Click to expand...

Well one someone says they have a half MOA rifle, then does the rifle always shoot all groups to 0.5000000” at 100 yards. No groups are 0.5001” or 0.505” or 0.498”? instead every group shot with the rifle is exactly 0.5” ?

I don’t want to argue about the significant digits nor the varience from the mean. I am not the quality control inspector for shot group measurement.

You are acting like every other good centerfire shooter to whom I have quoted those numbers. They just can’t believe that a rimfire could shoot that well and certainly not better than their target centerfires.

Well fine, maybe he uses Alien technology to shoot bug holed groups, maybe the guy is lying, could be the group size numbers are a total absolute fabrication. His winning a National Championship was not a fabrication. That was real, and this year Mr Kemp was 2nd senior for irons, 22 overall in Master Class irons, and 18th overall in the combined aggregate.

Anyone posting in this thread do better shooting small bore prone at Camp Perry this year?

I did not.
 
Slamfire,

I know I can't do better, yet. I'm working on keeping all my 25 meter shots inside an inch, which translates to 4 inches at 100. On a very good string I can keep 5 shots inside a half inch, but I haven't done it with 10.

This is with a Zastava Z5 (aka Remington R5) bolt action rifle wearing a 4x optic. Shooting with a sling is a whole different animal than shooting from a rest. I might be able to do better with a better rifle and better ammunition, but I think my money is better spent using what I have until I can't get any better any more.

Jimro
 
Shooting targets

It should be pointed out that - given the statistics about targets, rifles, ammo, and group sizes mentioned herein - you are not all really talking about that same thing.
I am guessing that quite a few of the smallish groups mentioned here were shot from a bench with a scope and were five shot strings. OK, that is one thing.
When we start to discuss small bore prone match shooting, we are in another realm altogether. The strings there are ten shots. The position is prone, sling, jacket. The sights, despite the picture of Mr. Kemp with a scoped rifle, are often iron/metallic sights. Even with metallic sights, small bore prone is a game of Xs....perfect scores are common and the guy who holds the center is the winner and often not by much.
The A27 50 yard prone target has an X ring that is 0.359" in diameter.
The A25 100 yard prone target has an X ring that is 1.0" in diameter.

A typical match is 1600 points/160 shots, sixty of those are shot at 100 yards.
All national records for smallbore prone competitions are perfect scores.
The record for the metallic sight 1600 match is 1600 - 152X. For scoped/any sight matches it is 1600 - 157X.
The oldest record that I know of is Tom Whitaker's 400-39X 100 yard score in a metallic sight match. (39 of 40 shots into one inch at 100 yards...no scope, no bench....do that with your Remington.)
Of course, a very great part of those scores is due to the shooters.
 
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Darkgael, what always missing is picture of a match 22 cal rifle vs standard type rifle and of course cost difference.

http://jga.anschuetz-sport.com/index.php5?menu=303&sprache=1

As to Tom Whitaker's record he sure not the average shooter as he set records before 1968 when he was in the Air Force 50yds metallic sight match.

How many matches has he shot in before that record? Or better yet how many millions of rds has he fired.

You would expect someone like him to set records he's not the average shooter.
 
I shot my Marlin 39A at my range's 50 yard line checking the accuracy of various brands. Eley Remington was the best with a group measuring <.70" with CCI minimags HPs and Thunder Bolts coming in slightly over .80". Fifteen years ago the Marlin was a .5" shooter, and it still is a .5" shooter but my eyes are trending to a 1" shooter.
 
Call it ignorance or lack of exposure, but I never thought the ammo was capable of that performance. I didn't see the value in spending the extra money for a "match grade" barrel like I do with my center fire rifles.

So base on today's market, who makes some of the best ammo?
 
As the old roper says, serious smallbore target shooting is a different world of skill, equipment, and challenge.

You Ruger and Marlin shooters might look into CMP Rimfire Sporter.
Rifles are limited to 7.5 lbs, 6X scope, 3 lb trigger.
Targets have a 1.78" ten ring.
Course of fire is slowfire and rapid fire prone and sitting at 50 yards, standing at 25.

A shooter from my club was fifth at the Nationals, 589/600 - 29X with a very tricked out 10/22. CZ 452s are the leading bolt action.
Winner had 593.
Nobody has yet cleaned the match so don't sneer at that fat ten ring.
 
Salvadore, Eley Remington rimfire match ammo is Eley's Match stuff they sell in black boxes. Match is made on the same machines that make their Tenex ammo but tests a tiny bit less for accuracy so it's sold under that label.

I've shot selected lots of Eley Match a time or two and it shot as accurate as Tenex. Some years ago, the US Olympic Team needed a new batch of rimfire match ammo for their free rifles so they ordered some from Eley. The Eley rep told them that Eley's plant in Great Britain ran short of Match so they repackaged some Tenex ammo in Match labeled boxes; someting they've done from time to time. So the US Olympic Center in Colorado Springs got black box Match instead of red box Tenex reporting it was one of the most accurate lots of Eley ammo they'd ever had.
 
Here is an informative article concerning a 22LR ammo test where the test mule was a Bleiker of consistent performance. The article is a little dated, but even then, there are 31 brands/loadings that turn in sub-moa at 100 yards.
 
I have two 22 rifles, one Marlin 795 and one Savage MK II and neither of those will shoot MOA at 100 yds with bulk ammo. In fact with federal bulk ammo I am probably seeing 4 inches at 50 yds. With CCI bulk ammo the results are better but far from 1 MOA.

Just wanted to throw that out there after the torrent of phenomenal results others seem to be getting :)

And yes, I have centerfire rifles with which I am able to consistently shoot sub MOA so the poor results with the 22s is not only due to the indian.
 
Realistically, I shoot 2 inches at 100 yards with a scope with a factory Ruger 10/22. These people claiming 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards should join the Olympics.
 
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