$200 box of primers!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter Prof Young
- Start date
Maxwell Haus
Moderator
That's a pretty picture right there. Even prettier sitting on your shelf I bet .
{Editing out political commentary. See board rule 5 d.)
Anyway, the whole thing is about supply and demand. I think the assorted manufacturers are currently closed due to Covid. Hence, the supply is low while the demand is the same.
Places like Midway are showing nearly everything as "Out of stock, no back order."
Anyway, the whole thing is about supply and demand. I think the assorted manufacturers are currently closed due to Covid. Hence, the supply is low while the demand is the same.
Places like Midway are showing nearly everything as "Out of stock, no back order."
The March 2021 American Rifleman has an interesting article titled "America's Ammo Shortage When will it end?".
One interesting comment from a Hornady representative regarding supply-side shortages:
"Did you know there's a shortage on the DOT-approved cardboard required for shipping our loaded ammunition?" (emphasis added)
One interesting comment from a Hornady representative regarding supply-side shortages:
"Did you know there's a shortage on the DOT-approved cardboard required for shipping our loaded ammunition?" (emphasis added)
This shortage will be with us for a while. I was in a meeting today about shipping commercial refrigeration equipment and was told the cost of shipping overseas has gone up about $5K per container. What cost $8K to ship across the Atlantic at the start of the year was now $13K. Additionally, when you get scheduled to ship, it is getting common to truck the container to the port and be told you'd been bumped due to overbooking, and that your container will have to sit in the yard for a month waiting for the next ship. Then that next ship arrives two weeks late, so it's actually a month and a half in the yard. This is going on worldwide and has a lot to do with why overseas supplies like gunpowder and primers and even loaded ammunition are only dribbling in. On the domestic side, it also took that same supplier three weeks to get a shipment from Pittsburgh to Denver. There is a shortage of truck space and trucking costs are increasing 10% some weeks. You used to be able to schedule a truck pickup for a specific day, but now it can be a three day window. That affects everything we buy.
The lack of supply pipeline space means undersupply and the resulting buyer competition may get worse. In ammunition and loading components in particular, we also have the new demand from all the new first-time gun owners, which were about 8.4 million by the end of last year buying at a pace that puts that number north of 10 Million by now, adding to demand for the underserved ammunition market that the old supply lines, even when they were running at normal speed, were not sized to handle.
Inflationary pressures are going to get worse after all the bailout spending and general prices going up this summer should be expected. It is hard to see reloading supplies and ammunition returning to normal under these circumstances. Today, Midway had IMI M855 that somehow arrived at their warehouse and they want $0.83⅓/round. Yikes! And that price is the same for a 30-round box or a 1200-round box.
Remington is running and making primers. This video from mid-December includes mention of Remington being in production. But it is more of interest because Vanderbrink is clearly exasperated with the conspiracy theorists claiming they aren't making and shipping ammunition when they are actually making more per day than they ever have in their history and are shipping it as fast as they can get it on a truck (which, as I pointed out above, can now actually be difficult to schedule when you want it).
The lack of supply pipeline space means undersupply and the resulting buyer competition may get worse. In ammunition and loading components in particular, we also have the new demand from all the new first-time gun owners, which were about 8.4 million by the end of last year buying at a pace that puts that number north of 10 Million by now, adding to demand for the underserved ammunition market that the old supply lines, even when they were running at normal speed, were not sized to handle.
Inflationary pressures are going to get worse after all the bailout spending and general prices going up this summer should be expected. It is hard to see reloading supplies and ammunition returning to normal under these circumstances. Today, Midway had IMI M855 that somehow arrived at their warehouse and they want $0.83⅓/round. Yikes! And that price is the same for a 30-round box or a 1200-round box.
Reloadron said:
Remington is running and making primers. This video from mid-December includes mention of Remington being in production. But it is more of interest because Vanderbrink is clearly exasperated with the conspiracy theorists claiming they aren't making and shipping ammunition when they are actually making more per day than they ever have in their history and are shipping it as fast as they can get it on a truck (which, as I pointed out above, can now actually be difficult to schedule when you want it).
make friends at your LGS. Tuesday I got a call from the owner of one of our local stores I have been hanging at every couple of weeks. He sold me 2K of Federal SRP's at $50 plus tax per thousand. His entire shipment was sold to locals that had been frequenting his store, they never hit the shelves
Was that the price the vender's had listed or were they actually selling for that much?
True story. During the last shortage, I saw an ad on our club's newsletter. CCI large rifle primers, 2 sleeves for $12. 6 cents a primer was double the normal price. Primers were also nowhere to be found. Out of desperation I called and setup a time to pick up at the guy's home. But strangely he asked whether I was serious. Well, I was. When I handed him the $12, he looked at me and said the primers were for $120!
I showed him the newsletter. It was clearly printed on it $12. $120 for 200 primers was so silly that the editor must have thought it was typo and changed it to $12. Compared to bad, $200 for 1,000 primers doesn't sound too bad.
-TL
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
I showed him the newsletter. It was clearly printed on it $12. $120 for 200 primers was so silly that the editor must have thought it was typo and changed it to $12. Compared to bad, $200 for 1,000 primers doesn't sound too bad.
-TL
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
I too fear this will last quite a long time for a number of reasons. Most of them logistic as UncleNick pointed out (though I wasn’t aware of those specific issues, that is disheartening as it will only compound the problem).
We have more gun owners now than ever before. A lot more. The big boys aren’t expanding manufacturing facilities, they’re just double timing existing plants. All primers and most powder goes to factory ammo manufacturers. What that essentially tells me is we will have to see factory ammo pricing/availability largely return to sane levels before we ever see much of any components availability for reloading other than a smattering here and there. The thing is, the millions of new gun owners have shifted the demand curve I’m afraid. After the last glut when ammo manufacturers got burned by expansion and demand subsequently falling off the cliff, they are hesitant to expand right now for what’s viewed as a temporary run on ammo. I’m personally not so sure it’s temporary. Certainly we probably won’t hold this demand level forever, but I don’t see it going back to even close to where it was before.
And with shipping as it is, raw materials are probably a hangup as well. While I haven’t heard of the federal plant shutting down for lack of materials, I bet they’ve been low enough to be concerned at least once or twice. Federal may be dying to ramp up a new facility as they see a long term demand increase, but material availability may be so weak a new factory couldn’t be supported by current supplies. I don’t know any of this for certain, I’m mostly just proposing likely logistic problems.
Coronavirus has showed the weakness of the “just in time” supply chain in a number of areas. Thank goodness I stocked up on components last April I would be nearly out now. What I would bet a hundred bucks on, and I’m not a gambling man, is that will not see the bottom drop out in a few months. We may see some easing, possibly, but nothing like price/availability of 2019. Heck I dare say nothing like price or availability of 2009, as bad as that was. I think we all agree this one is significantly worse.
We have more gun owners now than ever before. A lot more. The big boys aren’t expanding manufacturing facilities, they’re just double timing existing plants. All primers and most powder goes to factory ammo manufacturers. What that essentially tells me is we will have to see factory ammo pricing/availability largely return to sane levels before we ever see much of any components availability for reloading other than a smattering here and there. The thing is, the millions of new gun owners have shifted the demand curve I’m afraid. After the last glut when ammo manufacturers got burned by expansion and demand subsequently falling off the cliff, they are hesitant to expand right now for what’s viewed as a temporary run on ammo. I’m personally not so sure it’s temporary. Certainly we probably won’t hold this demand level forever, but I don’t see it going back to even close to where it was before.
And with shipping as it is, raw materials are probably a hangup as well. While I haven’t heard of the federal plant shutting down for lack of materials, I bet they’ve been low enough to be concerned at least once or twice. Federal may be dying to ramp up a new facility as they see a long term demand increase, but material availability may be so weak a new factory couldn’t be supported by current supplies. I don’t know any of this for certain, I’m mostly just proposing likely logistic problems.
Coronavirus has showed the weakness of the “just in time” supply chain in a number of areas. Thank goodness I stocked up on components last April I would be nearly out now. What I would bet a hundred bucks on, and I’m not a gambling man, is that will not see the bottom drop out in a few months. We may see some easing, possibly, but nothing like price/availability of 2019. Heck I dare say nothing like price or availability of 2009, as bad as that was. I think we all agree this one is significantly worse.
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Constrictor
New member
I sold a bunch of primers for $200/1000 this morning. Bought a nice vintage model 29 with the profits.
recoil junky
New member
I had read about what Nick was reporting as well. Containers from/to the U.S. sitting on the dock "lost" for weeks violates International Trade Federation policy yet countries were still doing it. It's a political thing.
As to civilian reloading supplies, it's the gougers out to make a buck and panicked buyers that are inflating the cost. We've all seen the videos from major manufacturers CEO's showing they are "pumping out" product as fast as humanly possible which I believe to be true. With only one domestic carrier (UPS) willing to ship primers and powder to the individual buyer the bottleneck is being exacerbated ten fold at this time.
RJ
As to civilian reloading supplies, it's the gougers out to make a buck and panicked buyers that are inflating the cost. We've all seen the videos from major manufacturers CEO's showing they are "pumping out" product as fast as humanly possible which I believe to be true. With only one domestic carrier (UPS) willing to ship primers and powder to the individual buyer the bottleneck is being exacerbated ten fold at this time.
RJ
Average Joe
New member
Pretty soon, they will give you a free gun with every purchase of a box of primers.
Maxwell Haus
Moderator
I have been using the Ginex large rifle primer , no issues at all . I really like them, they are a tight fit which works great in used brass where the primers pockets are getting a bit
loose .
loose .
There were 3 bokes cci 450's (3k) at the LGS that were priced $130/k, someone came in looking for mil primers and wondering if they would work. I told him difference between them and mil primers was the anvil, and I use the 450's in match loads..
They were sold before I left..
They were sold before I left..
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Some years back, Remington has some electrically fired ammo and guns to shoot it. Didn't sell well. Perhaps it is time someone revisits that idea??
Electrically fired ammunition has been in use in artillery since WWII. It's never been widespread in small arms ammo, but, perhaps now???
Sure would change the lock time a bit...
And, I think it would settle the whole "case driven forward by the firing pin" issue, as well...
Of course, the down side would be we'll still have shortages, they'll just be shortages of electrically primed CASES, not percussion primers...
Electrically fired ammunition has been in use in artillery since WWII. It's never been widespread in small arms ammo, but, perhaps now???
Sure would change the lock time a bit...
And, I think it would settle the whole "case driven forward by the firing pin" issue, as well...
Of course, the down side would be we'll still have shortages, they'll just be shortages of electrically primed CASES, not percussion primers...
TruthTellers
New member
Why didn't you buy any? Those may be the last bricks of primers ever made... worth every Benjamin.