2 Year old gun sold as new

If I buy a NIB gun from Davidson's, or buy a NIB gun from a shop going out of business, put it in my shop, for sale, is it then a used, previously owned, low round count, or NIB firearm ?
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Davidson's is a distributor. I would say that as long as the gun wasn't purchased for personal use, then it would still be "new" since it was never sold in retail. If the transfer of a firearm from a distributor to a retailer made a gun no longer NIB, then there would be very few NIB guns around.

I'd also feel the same way about guns acquired from the inventory of a shop that is going out of business. As long as it goes from the inventory of one FFL to another and isn't hijacked along the way for personal use, then it would still be NIB.
 
I think there is a legal definition,,,

When a new gun is purchased the paperwork you fill out is called in to someone (the Feds) and that serial number is recorded somewhere,,,
I was told by my local dealer that by law, as soon as the Feds have that number, the pistol is considered used.

Now I know that "by law" may not be what you folk are talking about here,,,
But if that pistol had already been sold once,,,
That number got recorded somewhere,,,
And it's a used firearm.

Aarond
 
I agree with cecILL. If you have no problem with the gun, I would keep it, but make it the LAST purchase I made from him. Also I would let friends know of how he does business.
 
If I buy a NIB gun from Davidson's, or buy a NIB gun from a shop going out of business, put it in my shop, for sale, is it then a used, previously owned, low round count, or NIB firearm ?
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Would an FFL purchasing from a distributor fill out a Form 4473? What if they planned on having a bit of range time with the firearm?

I wouldn't consider inventory transferred from a distributor to a dealer to be "used"; now, if that same piece of inventory has been passed around from dealer to dealer to dealer repeatedly, i might not call it "used", but i don't think i would want to pay "new"/NIB price for it. I would want the same level of discount as the usual "restocking" fee.

I guess it's kind of like a woman; there are many levels of "used" and the level depends mostly on "handling". I don't want a "virgin" gun (factory should test fire), but i don't want one with too much in common with the neighborhood's shared bicycle either. ;)
 
When a new gun is purchased the paperwork you fill out is called in to someone (the Feds) and that serial number is recorded somewhere,,,
I was told by my local dealer that by law, as soon as the Feds have that number, the pistol is considered used.
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The problem with what your local dealer told you is that the Feds don't get the serial number when you buy a gun. Unless you purchase multiple handguns the only information the Feds receive about what you bought is whether it was a long gun or handgun. In fact, in the case of long guns the Feds won't even know how many you're buying.
 
I have a dispute going with a Seller on Ebay, because the item was advertised as "NEW" and stressed. However , when received ... it's 2 yrs old, used, etc. His comment back was, "well, it's like NEW".

NEW is NEW. Unused or owned by anyone until it hits your hands. It's called fraud. I would advise my local DA's consumer division about the guy. If you don't want the gun, you can demand your money back. You shouldn't pay "new " prices, if it's not.
 
Manufacterer's do "test fire" most, if not all, guns, however, it's still "new". It's just like turning on the engine of a new car at the factory before it's sold, however, once ANYONE puts even a single round down the pipe it's used. And, if the first person to buy it from the distributer/retailer chain takes it out of the shop, it's now USED. No other way to look at it. A gun that's only been fired a few times can easily be cleaned up to the point you can't tell if it's ever been fired or not.

In this case, I'd be polite because that's good character and I'd take it back for a full refund. I wouldn't waste my time making any case with the guy other than to let him know "after" I had my money that I believe he was less than honest and I won't be able to do business with him and that if anyone ever asks, I'd have to be honest and share my experience.

I'd be polite and then leave and I wouldn't argue or debate with a liar.

If you can't get your money back, then you have a choice, try for a discount, just take your lumps, or go to the better business organization in your area and lodge a complaint.

I do think it's right and even good to give honest feedback to businesses as long as you take the high road while doing it.

I also like the term LNIB. I've sold some guns you never could have told had been fired. Had every original paper and box etc., but I also told them it was "used".

if you're buying from an individual and they've said it's never been fired, it doesn't change the value, it's used! And I think many lie about it too!

You'll see guns that were discountinued years ago show up on gunbroker and other auction sites being advertised as NIB. I seriously doubt it in most cases but that's the problem, it's hard to tell who's being honest anymore so the old adage "buyer beware" is more true now than ever before and remember, with the gun market the way it is, there are more and more people in it to make a quick buck who lack integrity to say the least!

God Bless
Gideon
 
Guess I'll be the odd man out. The defintion used in grading books on firearms, and descriptions, and that every dealer/collector I know uses is, new is condition, unfired, period. It doesnt matter if one person or a hundred have owned it, if it's absolutely new unfired, in the original box (or no box, but is obvious it has not been fired, and/or you trust the reputation of the seller), and it's in 100% original condition (finish), it's new. If grandpa went and bought a "new" Winchester 1873 rifle back in the 1920's before they quit making them, took it home, never fired it, put it under the bed in it's box, and 90 years later it's discovered, and sold, it's NEW. The term NIB means new, unfired, and has no meaning as far as age or how many people have owned it.

If a "new" gun is shopworn, such as had been a counter demo model for some time, and shows handling marks, or someone dropped it on the concrete floor, it should be considered LNIB or discounted to some degree.

Maybe I missed something, but as far as I've read the books, and dealt with dealers and colletors, that's how it's been.


LNIB is exactly what it says. It is not new, but like new. May have been fired, or perhaps a small handling mark, but is substantially as new.


What this dealer did was sell a used gun as new. It was not new. He said it was "test fired". Ok, it isnt new, it's LNIB and should have been presented as such. An 80 year old Colt SAA or Winchester would be a happy aqusition in that condition (and should still be described accurately in any event), but a current run of the mill gun should be described and presented accurately. If he shot it and decided he didnt want it, tough luck, he has to take the loss in condition and value.
 
If I own a thing for two years, and then I sell it after telling the buyer it is "new", then it is very arguable that I have deceived the buyer
 
If I buy a NIB gun from Davidson's, or buy a NIB gun from a shop going out of business, put it in my shop, for sale, is it then a used, previously owned, low round count, or NIB firearm ?
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Depends, did you do any "testfiring" and did you keep it as your "personal gun" for 2 years or did you take it directly to your store and put it out on the shelf for sale?

I don't think there's much wiggle room here. Based on what he told them on the phone after he got caught, it's a used gun. He bought it as his own personal firearm, fired it and kept it for 2 years, then decided to sell it in his shop.

The fact that he owns a gun shop doesn't magically change the definitions of "new" and "used".
 
"If I own a thing for two years, and then I sell it after telling the buyer it is "new", then it is very arguable that I have deceived the buyer"

I'd say that depends on what you did with it. If you took it home and left it in the box, it's as new as the day you bought it for all intents and purposes in the gun world. If you took it out regularly, left it loaded in the nightstand, carried it in a holster even once, or fired it even once, then I'd agree with you.


I know dealers that buy larger quantities of guns when they get good prices. If they sit in the box in the vault for 2 years before they sell them all, does that make them any less new? I don't think it does. It could have sat at the factory for years before being sent out.
 
the gun is considered new to him since he was "test firing" it as his own gun.
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Hmmm, I "test fire" all of my guns too... everytime I take them to the range. Guess I can still call them "new".
That seems to be a term I'm seeing used more often now.

Jim
 
We went back there and right when we walked in, the guy took the gun without saying a word to us and told one of his associates to give my buddy all his money back. He then told us that he ordered 2 new XDs if we wanted, and we both said we aren't buying anything from here. He said fine and went on with another customer.

No one said anything to us, and my buddy got refunded the money to his credit card and we walked out. It is obvious the owner knew what he did, and wanted it handled with as little problems as possible.

We went over to Fins Feather and Fur, and he purchased a new unbroken seal XD 45 for less than what he paid for the "new" gun at the other store. I also bought a new PLR-22 from there, a gun I would have bought at the other store for a little more if none of this transpired.

Funny how because the gun store was dishonest, they ended up losing out on 2 sales, and another 2 from my other 2 buddies that were looking to buy something new. Not to mention, recommendations from 4 individuals.
 
After we found out the real history of the gun, he immediately changed his story, and said he bought it from there and it is practically new.
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I'd guess you know about what that man's integrity is worth: not more than the difference in the price of NIB and LNIB.
 
File a complaint of FRAUD with the police..

he made a factual mis-representation especially if over the limit for a misdemeanor, usually above $150.
 
Well It's definately no longer new since you fired it at the range. IMO you got rooked, ya been had, ya got hoodwinked. I believe this to be a dishonest dealer. Was this the owner of the shop?... or an employee with his own gun on consignment? New = your the first owner after the factory. Used = everything else.

I'd probably let other shooters know about this... I'd never buy another gun from this store.
 
If a gun comes from the factory or distributor and sits on a shelf for a year, it's still new, insofar as it hasn't been sold at retail and shot outside the factory. If it came from a previous retailer's new stock to a second retailer in the above condition, I see it as new. If it's been sold at retail and not fired, it's no longer new in one sense, but still, it's not been used.

If a gun sits in a retailer's case and is handled by a dozen prospective customers and then is sold, it's still considered new, though it might have picked up some wear from handling. Is it really "new"?

If you get your money back with no hassle, after having turned a possibly "New" pistol into a used one (all this depending on how you define "new"), I don't see anything to complain about. The dealer takes a big hit because the pistol is now used, and he loses plastic transaction fees and maybe a few customers, but the original customer has not been harmed.

What happens if you buy a new pistol online and return it unfired? Is is still new? And how does all this paper-shuffling affect the value of the pistol, or its utility? All very confusing to me.
 
We called the gun store we purchased the gun from, and the guy that we purchased it from said he purchased the gun new in 2007, and the gun is considered new to him since he was "test firing" it as his own gun. We told him new is first owner, and not second, and they sold us a used gun as new. Just because he personally owned the gun for 2 years, he said it is new.
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Let me get this straight: He admitted that he actually FIRED it while he owned it, and that it was considered new to him (which implies that it is not new to you)?

In that case, it was definitely misrepresented. Not only did he own it, but he fired it, the offered it to you as new. That's just not right.

My opinion regarding NIB, LNIB, and used:

NIB: Brand new, never touched outside the factory OR one or more former owners, but NEVER fired outside the factory, no damage or blemishes, with ALL original paperwork, box and other misc. items (lock, etc.).

LNIB: Same as above except it has been fired (outside the factory, even if just once).

Used: Widely variable condition, possible damage, widely variable round count, missing box or paperwork.

Basically, if we're talking about a quality gun, as long as it is AS NEW and UNFIRED, I'm OK with the NIB description.

But what that dealer did was wrong.
 
yeah dude, that's pretty weak, same thing happened to me, its kind of a his word against yours thing going on, if you can take it back, do it and get a new one. Otherwise don't go there again, and steer people away, don't make a website over it, just if someone asks you "hey should i get a gun from there?" explain the story.
 
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