2 Year old gun sold as new

M

mouseboxeo

Inactive
Hey Everyone,

I have been reading a lot of posts here since becoming more and more interested in guns and I just want to say thanks for all the great info and debates.

My friend purchased a gun last night from a new gun store in town, and the person selling him the gun told him many times the gun was new. We actually went in there more than once while my friend was deciding to purchase from them or 30 minutes away at a large retailer. After purchasing the gun, we went to our gun range and fired the weapon. Once we were done, and my friend was putting the gun away, we noticed a tag from another retailer on the bottom of the firearm's case.

We asked the guys at the gun range we go to if they can tell if it is new or not. They recommended we call the retailer on the bottom and see if they can check the serial. We did, and they said the firearm was purchased in late 2007 as new. We called the gun store we purchased the gun from, and the guy that we purchased it from said he purchased the gun new in 2007, and the gun is considered new to him since he was "test firing" it as his own gun. We told him new is first owner, and not second, and they sold us a used gun as new. Just because he personally owned the gun for 2 years, he said it is new.

He said he would return the gun, but we feel that this type of business should not act like this, and should be aware that this type of practice has consequences. We still have to go back today to the return the firearm, and hope my buddy doesn't have an issue doing so since neither of us trust this store anymore.

What would you guys do?
 
I would either eturn the gun or if you like it ask for a discount.

When you buy a new car(gun) you are the first owner and there are no miles(bullets) on it. Does this help?
 
Although I believe the letter of the law to be that if a gun has been sold through a retailer it is no longer new per say.

However, what with all these ads on GunBroker claiming NIB status? For example, Colt Python NIB. Please, this gun has been bought and sold possibly many times over. True, it may never have been fired or taken out of the original box and still may be in 100% new condition but it is not new gun.

The only way something is still new is if the retailer got it from a distributor and never sold it yet.

On the other hand I am sure there are plenty of gun sellers out there that sell guns as new when they have been previously sold. I know of one in particular that I have bought from online before that says they sell returned guns as new as long as they are in the same condition as when they left the store and are unfired. I dont think this is unethical in any way.
 
The questions to answer are whether or not you can find a better deal on another gun of the same ilk and is the gun under warranty. Has your friend actually lost anything by purchasing this particular gun as opposed to another available gun.

If there's no loss then get on with enjoying the firearm. All guns come having been fired.
 
The main issue is the store owner said he got the gun from the wholesaler and it was brand new. After we found out the real history of the gun, he immediately changed his story, and said he bought it from there and it is practically new.

He obviously bought the gun as his personal gun, decided he wanted something else 2 years later, and thought he could make more by selling it new.

A returned product at any retailer is not new anymore, and is normally marked as "open box" by respectable retailers. Although some gun stores do return guns that have been purchased, these are not new anymore and should be disclosed to future purchasers. A gun retailer that will take a return on a firearm, does so at a cost. To keep the customer happy they lose out some on the returned weapon.

Although most will say a manufacturer will normally cover a used gun under their warranty, they still can refuse. With a new gun they cannot deny their lifetime warranty. My buddy would have bought a used HK over the Springfield he bought if he knew it was used.
 
For my 2 cents worth, NIB means never previously owned. LNIB means previous owner, maybe never fired or very lightly used.

It is deceptive to say a gun is new and has been previously sold, even if it has never been used. If it were me and if I wanted the gun, I would ask for either a discount or some compensation such as a few boxes of ammo, or a cleaning kit, or maybe a holster...something to make up the difference. If I was borderline on the gun, I might be inclined to give it back for a full refund and find a legitimate new one somewhere else.

Good Luck.
 
I'd say that it's pretty shady to sell a gun that has been owned and fired as "new". New means new - never used. Now, if the gun was purchased new and the owner never once fired the gun, then it can still be considered new. Some people describe this as "new old stock".

So, you are right to be concerned about this seller. Return the gun and get a full refund, anything short of that would be bad business practices on the part of the seller. If he jerks you around, then I'd report the owner's name, the bussiness name and explain exactly what happened right here and on other forums. Sturmgewehr has a general discussion board as well where folks expose their greivances with shady sellers and buyers.
 
He actually could have bought the same gun brand new at a large sports retailer near us 20 minutes away for less. He only purchased the gun from the gun store since the store was new and he wanted to give a local gun store business.

He could have bought the same used gun for 80 dollars less at another store, but he only wanted new.
 
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There is a reason why some people getting picky on the classifieds section. Technically, that gun should have listed as "used - LNIB". I have no problem with anyone using the "like-new-in-box" designation for a gun that is, functionally and cosmetically truly like it was when actually new, and comes in the original box with all the extras and papers it originally sold with. The buyer can make the determination if the condition and price are acceptable to them, but they are buying with the clear knowledge that the gun is not literally new as in direct from the manufacturer or their official distributer.

I would call what happened in the case mouseboxeo describes as lying. And it simply need not have been so if the seller had just said "yes it's a pre-owned gun, but it is in like new condition".

The gun stores I frequent never fail to make the distinction between new and used, even if the used gun truly was bought by the original owner and stored lovingly in a safe forever without being fired.
 
I think i would skip the discount & just return the gun. I would explain calmly that i didn't think the store's claim of "new" was correct. I would strongly suggest the store mark the item as "lightly used" or "demo" or "open box". I would then call the Better Business Bureau for you area & explain the situation to them. This is darn close to a fraud, if it isn't.

I would NOT consider doing business with that store again, and i would let them know that immediately after i had my money back.
 
I would take it back.

I would also post the name of the establishment so that others here don't fall victim to the same store.
 
I'm from the Peoples Republic of New York where its required that every firearm manufactured and imported after 2000 is fired for the purpose of "ballistic fingerprint databasing". Also note most major manufacturers test fire there products several times prior to packaging and shipping. So by your logic most guns are "used" before they arrive at the distributer or retailer. I would not consider a few rounds to be usage, case in point, your new car was at some point driven off a carrier and onto the lot at which you purchased it. Does that mean there's no such thing as a "new car"? As long as your new piece came in the original packaging, has not been registered to the manufacturer, and has not been subjected to "normal usage" then the fact that two different FFL holders possessed it prior to retailing is a non issue. If it appears new that treat it as such. If you contact the manufacturer and the warranty falls under another purchaser than by all means forward that information to the dealer for the return or to receive the difference in cost for a used gun if you enjoy the gun and wish to keep it.
 
Personally, I would have no problem with the firearm, but would with the dealer. He is a cheat and deserves no more of my business.
 
If is fired by anyone other than the factory for it's original first round then it is not new. Next time look for signs of usage. If you like the gin maybe a reduced price can be worked out. Now if the gun was never fired just kept in the box, like some collector items, then it is still "new in box". I agree from your story that it was deceptive and would be upset. Just curious, what kind of gun was it?
 
The gun was a Springfield XD 45.

I agree though, we should have inspected the gun and asked for proof up front. I have purchased 3 new guns within the last 6 months or so and never had a problem where the dealer lied.

I just thought it was a normal ethics thing and the guy was in the Marines also, so I didn't think he would screw us over since I was in also. I should have remembered from my time in that a lot of guys in my unit were just as dishonest as they went in.
 
Personally I base the "new" on condition not warranty status. However you might contact the manufacturer and ask if the warranty was ever registered, and if not, can you at this point register the warranty. If it has never been registered, I would consider it new since it's true the factory does test fire every weapon before boxing it up.

On the other hand if the warranty card was returned then it is definitely NOT NEW and the dealer should be reported to your local consumer protection agency, probably in the DA's office, and a complaint filed. That would most definitely be a violation of the law.

Back to my original comment-- I buy many guns advertised as "new" that may be 30-40 years old but they are in the box and unfired. Just because a gun has never been fired but sat in someone's vault for many yeas does not alter the fact that it is in new CONDITION as far as collecting goes, new as in the same condition as when it left the factory. So I suppose you could have two definitions of "new"-- new condition and new as never been owned before. I think the waranty status would be the deciding factor in that case.
 
NYPD13 - what is this "registering" you are referring to? Ain't no such thing here in VA :) Just saying, many states have no such law requiring any kind of registering of a gun sold either through an FFL or via private sales or trades. If you mean warranty registration, again, I'd say a moot point. Ruger does not formally offer a warranty, others have lifetime warranties that follow the gun, not the owner, and all have merely voluntary registration if the manufacturer offers that kind of thing.

Bottom line to me is, regardless of factory test firing, if the gun has been sold to an individual, it is henceforth "used". If you buy a new car, and never even drive off the lot before trading it back in, it is not going to be sold as new. Used, but good as new maybe, but still marked as used.
 
He misrepresented the sale and can get in alot of trouble for fraud if you report him to the county he has a license to do business in.

Tell him you want your money back,never go back and tell everyone you know about this guy.
 
I have a year old XD45 with quite a few rounds through it; i haven't sent in the warranty card yet. I'm not sure warranty registration would be a good determiner of "new" condition. I think that determination goes to round count AND the number of owners; IOW if someone has a safe queen that they've only fondled and never fired, i don't consider that NIB/new in the box. I would consider a long-stored but unfired gun just that, preowned with extra low round count.

If you base it solely on round count, i don't think you are getting the whole truth.
 
If I buy a NIB gun from Davidson's, or buy a NIB gun from a shop going out of business, put it in my shop, for sale, is it then a used, previously owned, low round count, or NIB firearm ?
 
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