1911 trigger job

Yes I have had a trigger job, and my advice is don't think about carrying a 1911 with a 3-4# trigger pull. Unless you are totally going to use the gun for bullseye shooting you are looking for trouble with any single action gun under a 4# trigger pull. Just my opinion.
 
HiBC said:
And,regarding 23 vs 28 for a MAINSPRING, I agree its not worth arguing.I said 28,I was corrected to 23 lb.No big deal,I let it go.
But since the whizzing contest persists,for no particular good reason
Kuhnhausen, "A Shop Manual" Vol 2,3rd edition,paperback ...in mine,its page
156. Figure 157.
Drawing :M1911/1911A1 mainspring (hammer spring) specification ,spring rate,27.7 lbs at free length of 2.156 in. rate,compressed to 1.062 is 29.5 +/- 2 lbs
Click to expand...
Snicker all you want, but before you snicker too long or too loud, understand what the terms are.

The specs from the Ordnance Department blueprints for the mainspring are:

Load at compressed length of 1.312 = 22.0 +/- 2.0 pounds
Load at compressed length of 1.062 = 29.5 +/- 2.0 pounds
Spring rate ==================== 27.69 pounds

The spring rate remains the same regardless of the length, unless it's a variable-rate spring -- which they didn't use in 1911, and which isn't used for hammer springs in current 1911s (Wolff now sells variable rate recoil springs, however). The number we use for mainspring rating (which is different from "rate") is the load at the compressed length with the hammer cocked and ready to fire -- that's the 22.0 +/- 2 pound number at the compressed length of 1.312 inches -- which is not the load at full compression, or hammer over-travel.

Then you can refer to Wolff Gunsprings: https://www.gunsprings.com/COLT/1911 GOV'T PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1#2

For Colt 1911, Factory Standard = 23 pounds

But, jump to Springfield Armory: https://www.gunsprings.com/SPRINGFIELD/1911A1 SERIES/cID1/mID60/dID267

Factory Standard with ILS = 30 pounds
 
Springfield with ILS is getting mighty close to departing from my definition of "1911". The stiff spring is to make up for the lack of room for a real 1911 mainspring under the cap with lock notch.
 
Jim Watson said:
Springfield with ILS is getting mighty close to departing from my definition of "1911". The stiff spring is to make up for the lack of room for a real 1911 mainspring under the cap with lock notch.
Click to expand...
Agreed. A lot of people just scrapped the entire ILS mainspring housing and replaced it with standard parts -- as I did with the only Springfield I own. Springfield seems to have finally gotten the message -- last year they abandoned the ILS.
 
Been awhile since I shot the .45 'over the course' in Bullseye comp., but as I recall, all 1911's had to lift a 4.5 lb. weight...it was, and is, a safety requirement. I'd say a 3 lb. trigger on a defense carry gun is pretty light...safety-wise in the heat of an encounter. Jerry Kuhnhausen's excellent workshop manuals on the 1911 (and several other hand guns) should be on all aficionado's shelves. The following may say it better:
Don't! Unless it's strictly a range toy. And even then, don't.
Click to expand...
OT: Is "snicker" the new buzz word for disagreement? Just asking....
 
NRA Conventional current minimum trigger pull for .45 auto is 3.5 lbs, 2.5 lbs for revolvers and for other caliber autos suitable for Centerfire. CMP Service Pistol remains at 4.5 lb min.

Very light trigger pulls are common in USPSA, IPSC, and IDPA. Ever shot a sub-2lb Glock? I think some of those guys may be trying to compensate for a jerk with a hair trigger. I am ok at 3.75 but any new gun or refurb will be at 3.5.

Here is how Jack Weigand gets a light 1911 trigger. Not a drop in or "spring engineering."
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10297/GunTechdetail/2-lb-Trigger-Pull
 
I assumed that "Snicker" just = :p
No biggie.
Maybe he's still using DOS and the icons don't show on his screen.

OK, you guys made me go look.
My old clunk that has served me well as a match gun for a long time has the stock trigger it originally came with, no modifications.
It's a nice smooth 5 pound pull.
Probably slicked up from gazillions of trigger pulls.
It feels perfect to me.
 
g. willikers,

"Probably slicked up from gazillions of trigger pulls."

That's too imprecise for a discussion of this level.

Now, was it one gazillion, two gazillion, three gazillion, four gazillion
five gazillion?
 
The 1911A1 can, and has gone full auto. ALWAYS because some combination of parts is not working correctly, and from what I have heard and seen, nearly always because someone tried to "improve" the trigger pull.
Click to expand...

I missed something in my previous statement. So, here I try again. With a functional disconnector, 1/2 cock notch and a sear that rotates back to the hammer, the 1911 cannot go full auto.

The issue is that a 3lb trigger lightens the sear spring force. If it were to somehow jam in the released position, this reduced fore might not return the sear. Based on my experience, a 3lb pull can be made safe. I suppose it could be made unsafe too.
 
I missed something in my previous statement. So, here I try again. With a functional disconnector, 1/2 cock notch and a sear that rotates back to the hammer, the 1911 cannot go full auto.
Click to expand...

Maybe I missed something too, because all I'm getting from this is

"with properly functioning parts, the 1911 cannot go full auto"

which is, well, obvious...

We've got several different parts, with multiple angles of contact, bearing surfaces, and spring tension in play, and without someone specifically stating what was done to produce a 3lb trigger pull, there is no way of knowing what was done or not done correctly to produce a that trigger pull.

Yes, even if the hammer jars off the full cock notch, it should be caught by the half cock, BUT we have no way of knowing if Bubba's shade tree trigger job left the parts still in condition to do that...reliably

When things get altered TOO much, and when things break (which is also altering things too much ;)) nearly anything can happen, from a gun that won't fire at all, to one that won't STOP until empty. All depends on the specific interaction of the pieces.
 
The most likely cause of one going FA is improperly messing with the sear/hammer engagement AND mucking around with the sear spring. Lots of hack jobs on a 1911. A buddy once asked me to look at his after he "tuned it." It was failing to fire and I simply assumed he put a way too light mainspring in it. Not willing to be bothered to drop 8 bucks on a 5 pack of spring, I learned that he decided to just cut a couple of coils. As i did a function check i noticed the grip safety would also automatically disengage under its on weight if you pointed the muzzle down. So I knew he had p!ayed with the sear spring as well. At first he said he didnt but eventually admitted that he did. He swore, though, that he didnt "polish" the hammer or sear. I told him some things to check, but I refused to physically help with any of the work. I don't have an FFL, insurance, and other such necessities to be fixing bubbas home trigger job form someone else.

Its not magic, but be honest with yourself about your knowledge and skill set before you do it. I've messed up a few times. I never played with triggers much until I had a very firm grasp of what I was doing.
 
Yes, even if the hammer jars off the full cock notch, it should be caught by the half cock, BUT we have no way of knowing if Bubba's shade tree trigger job left the parts still in condition to do that...reliably
Click to expand...

This is true when the hammers safety ledge (what is commonly called the half cock) is of the captive design.
However many hammers being produced now do not have a captive safety ledge some do not even have a full safety ledge.

I shot raceguns for years with trigger pull weights set at 1.5 pounds with no malfunction from the guns or the shooter.
With trigger pull weights that light one needs to educate their trigger finger to the lightness of the pull weight and the only way to do that is to fire many thousands of rounds of live ammo down range.

You also educate your self in proper gun handling skills, one of which is your finger does not go to the trigger until you are ready to fire the gun.
If this is done then trigger pull weight is a moot point.

Best Regards
Bob Hunter
 
Hunter_Customs said:
You also educate your self in proper gun handling skills, one of which is your finger does not go to the trigger until you are ready to fire the gun.
If this is done then trigger pull weight is a moot point.
Click to expand...

Amen. That, plus all of the redundant and independent safeties on a 1911 (especially if the gun has a grip-lever-controlled firing-pin safety), makes a very light trigger fine, even for a SD gun. (And I am completely comfortable carrying my DA/SA revolvers, with very light SA triggers, that have no safeties, because they have very heavy DA triggers with very long pulls). But there are some other requirements:

Don't ALSO shoot guns with heavier triggers ... if you want to carry a gun (or guns) with very light trigger(s), exclusively shoot those guns. And after any trigger work on the 1911's, you need to THOROUGHLY test the gun, starting with a single live cartridge above one dummy round, then above two dummy rounds, etc, up the the maximum mag capacity you will use. And if you change recoil spring strength, repeat ALL your testing. You also need to test (with dummies) chambering the first round from a reload mag. You may find that you need to do all these chamberings with a "bulls-eye reload" (with the slide locked back, pull the trigger fully aft and HOLD IT THERE until the slide slams home). (And test that also with all dummies, then 1 live above various numbers of dummies).

All of the guns I shoot have between 2-1/3lb to 2-3/4lb triggers ... two 1911's and two S&W L-Frame DA/SA revolvers (shot ONLY in SA mode). I EXPECT those guns to fire with (what feels like) almost no force on the trigger ... I don't even TOUCH the trigger until the gun is on target and I'm ready to shoot. In fact, I don't even put my finger into the trigger guard (or even get it near the trigger guard) until the gun is on target.

Light triggers CAN be safely carried (and HAVE been over long periods by many people), but it is SERIOUS business that most shooters probably don't want to commit to, or who aren't willing to follow the above restrictions on their choices and behavior. It's not for most people, but blanket statements that it CAN'T be safely done for a carry gun are unwarranted, IMO. Anyone who decides to do it needs to recognize that doing it safely is only THEIR responsibility to ensure ... it's no one else's responsibility.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top