TheFriendlyMarksman
New member
Has anyone had a trigger job on a 1911? I'd like to get the pull weight down to no more than 3 lbs. Any advice?
1911 trigger job
- Thread starter TheFriendlyMarksman
- Start date
dakota.potts
New member
3lbs. is very light. Have you fired a crisp 3 pound trigger before to be sure you are comfortable with a trigger even lighter than that?
Cylinder and slide sells kits that claim to be precisely machined to drop in and achieve trigger pulls at precise levels between 3 and 4 pounds. I have one of these but no 1911 to install it in (yet). I have heard good things about them though.
Cylinder and slide sells kits that claim to be precisely machined to drop in and achieve trigger pulls at precise levels between 3 and 4 pounds. I have one of these but no 1911 to install it in (yet). I have heard good things about them though.
If you just HAVE to do it--the Cylinder and Slide kits will get you to <3
easily. I'm running Extreme Engineering Ultimate hammer/sear/disco
kits in 9 major open guns. With a SV Titanium sear spring and a 17 lb
mainspring I've gone as low as 1.25 lbs with 100% reliability. Currently
have both guns set at 1.75 lbs--I didn't like the feel of the reset at the
lower weight.
easily. I'm running Extreme Engineering Ultimate hammer/sear/disco
kits in 9 major open guns. With a SV Titanium sear spring and a 17 lb
mainspring I've gone as low as 1.25 lbs with 100% reliability. Currently
have both guns set at 1.75 lbs--I didn't like the feel of the reset at the
lower weight.
4-5lbs is plenty light in a 1911 trigger. Its one of the shortest travel triggers in common use. Less than 4lbs and I couldn't dare carry it. Less than 3 and I would honestly be concerned with safe use at the range (I have daughters who shoot, so I'm worried about more than just me). This is just me. I think you get plenty light by fiddling with the leaf spring and a 20-22lb mainspring.
Over in the legal section (iirc) we discussed at length the implications of modifying a SD gun.A point that came out is if you make a SD shoot with a1911 with under a 4 lb pull,it may well be the police armorer will be a witness for the prosecuter.For SD.or carry,I recommend 4 lb min.
If you are making a target gun,a 3 lb pull is achievable.However,if this is your first 1911 trigger job....some guidance from an experienced pistolsmith is in order.
Its not "just swapping parts" on a 1911.
I'd start by selecting a match grade Cylinder and slide,or EGW,Harrson,or other high quality matched set of hammer,sear,disconnect. You can get a kit that includes a sear spring.Not a bad idea.There are light pull titanium sear springs,too. The stock 1911 mainspring is (iirc) 28 lbs. That can be reduced by buying a lighter weight spring with matching firing pin spring.
About the sear jig: When you buy a high quality matched set,your hope is everything will work right.The angles and finishes are precision ground.My plan is,don't touch the hammer,sear,or disconnect,unless there is a problem.
The one problem I have seen,with tolerance stacking,the exact location of full cockengagement can be a little off.I need a little over-cock .Not much!! Too much is bad! But just enough for reliable engagement.I have had to stone just a few thousandths off a sear nose a couple of times.
Not with your dremel,not with crocus cloth,not with ANYTHING do you really want to touch the sear and hammer notches. You paid $140 or so for it to be right.IF you must stone the sear for some reason,use a fixture and proper stones.Mine is a Marvel and it works for me.I finish with a black Arkansas.
You probably should buy at least one thumb safety.Maybe two.They have to be fitted.Both to the frame,a bit,but then to allow the sear zero movement when engaged.Its not obvious at first what to do.You may need a spare.Learning the 1911 requires an investment in tools and do-over parts.
The sear spring has "as stamped" edges.Those bear on the rear of the trigger stirrup,the sear,the disconnect,and the grip safety.At the friction/contact points,a bit of edge break and polishing can help.
A smooth trigger track is good.Getting overtravel right is important to the hammer hooks and sear nose.
The sear spring functions in "balancing" the act.Some bending is likely necessary.
Then,from you Khunhausen shop manual,a series of safety checks is critical.
You might find the Wilson video courses useful.
When you test fire,begin with one round in the magazine.Likely the slide will stay back.
Then,load just two.If you pistol goes full auto,it will only be a double tap!Do that several times. Then try three rounds at a time.
Get a quality replacement pin kit.You may have pin fit tolerances to deal with.
The hammer,and particularly the hammer strut!!.Short,tight,hard to start pin!!
Parts,a Khunhausen,the tools..you'll be sneaking upon $300 for the first one.A little more,depending on stones and sear jig.
And, a guys first 1911 trigger job turns out good sometimes.Sometimes.
I'm trying to answer your question straight.There is at least one fine 1911 smith on this forum.I wonder what he gets for a bullseye 3 lb trigger.
BTW,study any competition rules you have to live by.You might need trigger weights or a good gauge
Just to be clear,3 lbs CAN be done. I have put a couple of 1911's together with the suggested parts and they had pulls I felt were "too light".They worked fine.On one I pulled the titanium sear spring out,the other I just bent the sear spring a bit.
I won't tell the target shooters how to play,but you can shoot a1911 with a 4 1/2 lb trigger just fine. You CAN put maybe 1 1/2 lbs in the take up,and 3 lbs in the break.
If you are making a target gun,a 3 lb pull is achievable.However,if this is your first 1911 trigger job....some guidance from an experienced pistolsmith is in order.
Its not "just swapping parts" on a 1911.
I'd start by selecting a match grade Cylinder and slide,or EGW,Harrson,or other high quality matched set of hammer,sear,disconnect. You can get a kit that includes a sear spring.Not a bad idea.There are light pull titanium sear springs,too. The stock 1911 mainspring is (iirc) 28 lbs. That can be reduced by buying a lighter weight spring with matching firing pin spring.
About the sear jig: When you buy a high quality matched set,your hope is everything will work right.The angles and finishes are precision ground.My plan is,don't touch the hammer,sear,or disconnect,unless there is a problem.
The one problem I have seen,with tolerance stacking,the exact location of full cockengagement can be a little off.I need a little over-cock .Not much!! Too much is bad! But just enough for reliable engagement.I have had to stone just a few thousandths off a sear nose a couple of times.
Not with your dremel,not with crocus cloth,not with ANYTHING do you really want to touch the sear and hammer notches. You paid $140 or so for it to be right.IF you must stone the sear for some reason,use a fixture and proper stones.Mine is a Marvel and it works for me.I finish with a black Arkansas.
You probably should buy at least one thumb safety.Maybe two.They have to be fitted.Both to the frame,a bit,but then to allow the sear zero movement when engaged.Its not obvious at first what to do.You may need a spare.Learning the 1911 requires an investment in tools and do-over parts.
The sear spring has "as stamped" edges.Those bear on the rear of the trigger stirrup,the sear,the disconnect,and the grip safety.At the friction/contact points,a bit of edge break and polishing can help.
A smooth trigger track is good.Getting overtravel right is important to the hammer hooks and sear nose.
The sear spring functions in "balancing" the act.Some bending is likely necessary.
Then,from you Khunhausen shop manual,a series of safety checks is critical.
You might find the Wilson video courses useful.
When you test fire,begin with one round in the magazine.Likely the slide will stay back.
Then,load just two.If you pistol goes full auto,it will only be a double tap!Do that several times. Then try three rounds at a time.
Get a quality replacement pin kit.You may have pin fit tolerances to deal with.
The hammer,and particularly the hammer strut!!.Short,tight,hard to start pin!!
Parts,a Khunhausen,the tools..you'll be sneaking upon $300 for the first one.A little more,depending on stones and sear jig.
And, a guys first 1911 trigger job turns out good sometimes.Sometimes.
I'm trying to answer your question straight.There is at least one fine 1911 smith on this forum.I wonder what he gets for a bullseye 3 lb trigger.
BTW,study any competition rules you have to live by.You might need trigger weights or a good gauge
Just to be clear,3 lbs CAN be done. I have put a couple of 1911's together with the suggested parts and they had pulls I felt were "too light".They worked fine.On one I pulled the titanium sear spring out,the other I just bent the sear spring a bit.
I won't tell the target shooters how to play,but you can shoot a1911 with a 4 1/2 lb trigger just fine. You CAN put maybe 1 1/2 lbs in the take up,and 3 lbs in the break.
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Aguila Blanca
Staff
Yes - see below:TheFriendlyMarksman said:
Three pounds is, IMHO, too light for a 1911 trigger. Unless it's done perfectly, there's too much chance of hammer follow, which can result in the gun going full-auto. The Colt Gold Cups can safely have triggers in the 2-1/2-pound range because they have an additional spring and a couple of other parts that help to alleviate this problem. 1911s other than Gold Cups should not have triggers lighter than 4 pounds. I've shot a couple that were 3-1/2 pounds and I didn't like them at all -- they "went off before they should have."UncleEd said:
Aguila Blanca
Staff
23 pounds, except Springfield Armory uses a 28-pound hammer spring.HiBC said:
Roland Thunder
New member
My Colt XSE Government Model is 3lbs. I wouldn't dare carry it or even use it for home protection for that matter. It is strictly for, as some earlier suggested, a range gun. My home protection weapon is a Sig 320 45acp
g.willikers
New member
My 2 cents:
If the marksman part of your screen name is true, then you can safely ignore the warnings about light triggers.
But to get such a light trigger, the only sensible approach in my mind is to just send the pistol to an acknowledged 1911 smith.
I have had good luck with drop in parts, but not for a trigger as light as you want.
Could be dangerous territory for a do it yourself project.
If the marksman part of your screen name is true, then you can safely ignore the warnings about light triggers.
But to get such a light trigger, the only sensible approach in my mind is to just send the pistol to an acknowledged 1911 smith.
I have had good luck with drop in parts, but not for a trigger as light as you want.
Could be dangerous territory for a do it yourself project.
Interesting post, but not really factual. Gold Cups do have some parts to improve feel and inertia repeat firing.
With a functional disconnector and 1/2 cock, fa fire is impossible.
That said, i could make a safe 3lb 1911, but i dont want that. I would rather ccw something 4-5 lb and range something 3.5-4.5 lbs.
I wonder how many in this thread are lightening Glock triggers with 3.5 connectors and spring kits??
I know more than one competition shooter with 2#-3# triggers that have been safe and durable. It's doable.
It's generally pretty easy, in my experience, to get a good, 3.25#-3.75# trigger without much work, and using the stock parts.
More than one gunsmith will charge you $200, on top of $200 in new parts, for a trigger job.
Others will charge $75 to massage the stock parts.
There's a vast middle ground.
The Cylinder & Slide kits are supposed to be very good, and often do "drop in" without much work beyond adjusting the sear spring.
It's generally pretty easy, in my experience, to get a good, 3.25#-3.75# trigger without much work, and using the stock parts.
More than one gunsmith will charge you $200, on top of $200 in new parts, for a trigger job.
Others will charge $75 to massage the stock parts.
There's a vast middle ground.
The Cylinder & Slide kits are supposed to be very good, and often do "drop in" without much work beyond adjusting the sear spring.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Exactly what part of my post is not factual? It's a well-known problem that 1911s with poorly done, overly-light trigger "jobs" can go full-auto.Nathan said:
Shimpy: That really needs to be fixed.The sear getting bashed by the half cock notch will damage the sear and/or hammer notch,besides being dangerous,it will get more dangerous as it is damaged.Have your friend look to Kuhnhausen.
I'd trust him for the best path.
First thing I'd check is the overtravel adj.on the trigger,and maybe the clearance at the grip safety.You need some overtravel to let the sear move a bit further.A bit more sear spring tension might prevent sear bounce.
Past that,its best to study the hammer the sear and interaction.An inspection jig is one way.Its a plate with pins that have the same center distance as a 1911 frame,hammer vs sear pin.Another way is use long pins and assemble the hammer/sear outside the frame,on the side of the receiver.
There will be some combination of modifying the sear and hammer that will give clearance for the sear nose to clear half cock.But read about the right way.
Also,if he cut too much secondary clearance on the sear,that cams the sear out of the hammer notch early,before it has been pressed far enough by the trigger bar.Its a trick to reduce creep at the trigger.A small amount strengthens the sear nose.It can be overdone.
Now,the reaction to too much secondary angle might be shortening the sear.
That has problems,too.It changes the engagement angles,and /or may lead to excessive overcock.Which is about the hammer whacking the spur then heading back toward the frame,to be caught by the sear.Its not good for the hammer to get too much running start.
Despite apparent simplicity,JMB's elegant genius choreographed a dance inside the function of a 1911.
Knowing the dance like a judge on dancing for the stars is key to tuning the parts.
I'd trust him for the best path.
First thing I'd check is the overtravel adj.on the trigger,and maybe the clearance at the grip safety.You need some overtravel to let the sear move a bit further.A bit more sear spring tension might prevent sear bounce.
Past that,its best to study the hammer the sear and interaction.An inspection jig is one way.Its a plate with pins that have the same center distance as a 1911 frame,hammer vs sear pin.Another way is use long pins and assemble the hammer/sear outside the frame,on the side of the receiver.
There will be some combination of modifying the sear and hammer that will give clearance for the sear nose to clear half cock.But read about the right way.
Also,if he cut too much secondary clearance on the sear,that cams the sear out of the hammer notch early,before it has been pressed far enough by the trigger bar.Its a trick to reduce creep at the trigger.A small amount strengthens the sear nose.It can be overdone.
Now,the reaction to too much secondary angle might be shortening the sear.
That has problems,too.It changes the engagement angles,and /or may lead to excessive overcock.Which is about the hammer whacking the spur then heading back toward the frame,to be caught by the sear.Its not good for the hammer to get too much running start.
Despite apparent simplicity,JMB's elegant genius choreographed a dance inside the function of a 1911.
Knowing the dance like a judge on dancing for the stars is key to tuning the parts.
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