1911 for home defense
- Thread starter Doc Hoy
- Start date
Deaf Smith
New member
Doc,
That advice above is false. They have found 1911 mags loaded since WW2 and they functioned fine even after being compressed for 40 years.
Now as long as the 1911 has a 5 or 6 lb trigger you simply keep it at home chamber empty (one of the few times I feel that is a good way to keep it as if you have time to run to your gun in the house you have time to rack the slide.)
Deaf
The way I look at the spring issue is that if you're worried about the springs wearing out from the magazines being left loaded, just replace the springs periodically. Replacement magazine springs are very inexpensive ($17.29 for a package of three from Wolff Gunsprings) and are good preventative maintenance. Personally, if I were to keep a semi-auto magazine loaded all the time (I don't because my home defense handguns are revolvers) I'd simply replace the magazine springs annually and not worry about spring fatigue.
http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/COLT/1911%20GOV'T%20PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1#805
That being said, you still need to have at least two magazines. This is because one of the most common causes for jams in a semi-automatic is problems with the magazine. If your gun jams while someone's trying to kick in your door in the middle of the night, you're not going to have time to fiddle with a magazine, it's much faster and more efficient to just drop the bum mag and insert a fresh one.
As for ammunition, I also recommend factory JHP ammo. The use of handloads presents several possible legal issues not the least of which is the potential for discrepancies in forensic examination of gunshot residue. If, for example, your handloads are loaded in Winchester cases, the police might compare the GSR from the shooting from that left by factory ammo. If your handloads leave less GSR at the distance you say you shot your attacker from than factory ammo does from the same distance, the cops may believe that you shot from a greater distance thus calling your entire story into question.
One of the nice things about the .45 ACP cartridge is that there are very few "bad" JHP loadings for it. Pick a 200-230gr JHP from a major ammo maker like Winchester, Remington, Federal, Hornady, Speer, or Cor-Bon, shoot at least 100 rounds of it to make sure it functions reliably in your gun, and then use the handloads for practice.
As far as the legal and psychological ramifications of shooting in self-defense, both Frank Ettin and Glenn E. Meyer are far more knowledgeable about such things than I (law and psychology are their respective professions) so I'll defer to them on such matters. My only advice on the matter is that in most of the U.S., the legal threshold for deadly force is the reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily injury to yourself or another present innocent person. If you have any alternative to deadly force that does not place life and limb in equal or greater danger, it's always best to take said alternative.
http://www.gunsprings.com/Semi-Auto%20Pistols/COLT/1911%20GOV'T%20PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1#805
That being said, you still need to have at least two magazines. This is because one of the most common causes for jams in a semi-automatic is problems with the magazine. If your gun jams while someone's trying to kick in your door in the middle of the night, you're not going to have time to fiddle with a magazine, it's much faster and more efficient to just drop the bum mag and insert a fresh one.
As for ammunition, I also recommend factory JHP ammo. The use of handloads presents several possible legal issues not the least of which is the potential for discrepancies in forensic examination of gunshot residue. If, for example, your handloads are loaded in Winchester cases, the police might compare the GSR from the shooting from that left by factory ammo. If your handloads leave less GSR at the distance you say you shot your attacker from than factory ammo does from the same distance, the cops may believe that you shot from a greater distance thus calling your entire story into question.
One of the nice things about the .45 ACP cartridge is that there are very few "bad" JHP loadings for it. Pick a 200-230gr JHP from a major ammo maker like Winchester, Remington, Federal, Hornady, Speer, or Cor-Bon, shoot at least 100 rounds of it to make sure it functions reliably in your gun, and then use the handloads for practice.
As far as the legal and psychological ramifications of shooting in self-defense, both Frank Ettin and Glenn E. Meyer are far more knowledgeable about such things than I (law and psychology are their respective professions) so I'll defer to them on such matters. My only advice on the matter is that in most of the U.S., the legal threshold for deadly force is the reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily injury to yourself or another present innocent person. If you have any alternative to deadly force that does not place life and limb in equal or greater danger, it's always best to take said alternative.
Just a couple of comments
I have two .40SW handguns, XD 4" barrel and Sig 229. I wear one of them all the time. The majority of the time I carry the XD and I've had the same 12 rounds in for over a year. These are my sd rounds. I've never in the ten years I've had the gun did I ever have a problem with a weak magazine spring. I do practice shooting and empty the mags about once a year.
I love bullseye also, every handgun I load for has bullseye. But I do shoot a lighter load for the Sig
As far as the self defense issue. I always have 13 rounds, one in the chamber and 12 in the mag. If a person is worried or concerned about shooting someone then they would be better off not carrying a gun. It just doesn't make sense to me if you have a CCW and you have to draw your gun it had better be loaded and you have to be prepared to use it.
And just a couple of things I learned.
1. You shoot to stop someone, your intention is never to kill anyone. I learned that from a couple of state prosecutors.
2. If you're a position where retreating is not an option and you have to draw a gun. Point the gun at the crotch rather than center mass. The offender can see where the gun is pointed and there's a very good possibility the offender with turn and run.
I have two .40SW handguns, XD 4" barrel and Sig 229. I wear one of them all the time. The majority of the time I carry the XD and I've had the same 12 rounds in for over a year. These are my sd rounds. I've never in the ten years I've had the gun did I ever have a problem with a weak magazine spring. I do practice shooting and empty the mags about once a year.
I love bullseye also, every handgun I load for has bullseye. But I do shoot a lighter load for the Sig
As far as the self defense issue. I always have 13 rounds, one in the chamber and 12 in the mag. If a person is worried or concerned about shooting someone then they would be better off not carrying a gun. It just doesn't make sense to me if you have a CCW and you have to draw your gun it had better be loaded and you have to be prepared to use it.
And just a couple of things I learned.
1. You shoot to stop someone, your intention is never to kill anyone. I learned that from a couple of state prosecutors.
2. If you're a position where retreating is not an option and you have to draw a gun. Point the gun at the crotch rather than center mass. The offender can see where the gun is pointed and there's a very good possibility the offender with turn and run.
johnelmore
New member
The thing about 1911s, in my humble opinion mind you, is they all need a lot of customization to make them shoot the way you want. You need to buy a bunch of aftermarket accessories and have an account at the local gun store. Its almost as if the gun makers wanted it this way so they can sell more stuff. In fact, there are some aftermarket fitters like Wilson Combat who have made it their business modifying 1911s.
IMHO, get yourself a Sig. It shoots straight right out of the box without the need to go to an aftermarket fitter like Wilson Combat.
IMHO, get yourself a Sig. It shoots straight right out of the box without the need to go to an aftermarket fitter like Wilson Combat.
And that's a good idea. But before you buy any, see if you can't borrow as many different mags as possible to see if your particular pistol has any sort of preference. Someone above mentioned Wilson. That's a good choice, but there are other choices too and you owe it to yourself to take a little time to see if there are any that work particularly well in your pistol.
I think shooters go overboard on the customization of M1911s and thinking NIB is not good enough. My AMT Hardballer was shooting too low, I sent the slide to them, it came back fine. Pachmayr grips and a white outline rear sight are the only modifications I have made to it. I had high fixed sights installed on the slide of my Colt Mark IV-then got another Colt slide for it. I had MMC sights installed on my Satin Finish Combat Commander as I simply could not see the factory sights, especially in bright light. The safety on that is stiff when being engaged, probably some very gentle polishing would solve that. Triggers on all 3 are fine as is. I did install flat mainspring housings on the Colts-the Hardballer came that way, decided that felt better in my hand. Otherwise they are stock. It seems to me the Glock shooters like their favorite "as is", likewise the SIG and S&W shooters don't go in for customizing. Better to spend time at the range and dryfiring to get familiar with it.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
YMMV but the more I see folks play with Glocks (except for sights), the more they become like 1911s. They jam - 
.
I've just changed sights on my Glocks. I shoot my 1911 as is (and it did have to go to the shop twice to be fixed).
I reach for the Glock for HD.
.I've just changed sights on my Glocks. I shoot my 1911 as is (and it did have to go to the shop twice to be fixed).
I reach for the Glock for HD.
Theohazard
New member
I agree 100%; except for new sights (and maybe a trigger job), aftermarket Glock "upgrades" tend to actually be downgrades.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
I have to admit I just bought my first (in many years) Glock -- a Glock 19. I immediately put some 10-8 Performance sights on it. But I actually think the stock trigger is quite good.Theohazard said:
johnelmore
New member
When customizing your pistol think first about what you actually want to use it for. Is it going to be a self defensive pistol for the night stand? Will it be used for competition? Maybe its one of those toys intended for range use with friends and a method of socialization...
A self defensive pistol should not need any additional customization out of the box...that said I know you guys are still going to try...
A self defensive pistol should not need any additional customization out of the box...that said I know you guys are still going to try...
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Maybe and maybe not. The one thing I do to all my 1911s is install a short trigger because I have short fingers and need a short trigger reach. On several, I've also changed the sights.johnelmore said:
Tactical Jackalope
New member
Agreed. I do not modify the internals of my Glocks. If I do, it's either a range gun only or on it's way to be a competition gun. So HD and SD outside the home, it's a factory Glock 19 with Trijicon HD's loaded with 124gr speer gold dot +p's.
I second the fact that modifying a 1911 or Glock's internals makes them less reliable where it wouldn't matter out on the range.
I second the fact that modifying a 1911 or Glock's internals makes them less reliable where it wouldn't matter out on the range.
Dragline45
New member
As long as you function test the gun after mod's it shouldn't be a problem. Every J frame I have had has gotten new rebound springs, my Beretta has a lighter mainspring.
SFsc616171
Moderator
"Lets say I wanted to use the 1911 for home defense. The Gunners Mates always said that keeping rounds in the clip weakens the spring.
Do I buy two additional clips and rotate the rounds every week? Just wondering. "
The Great God John Moses Browning did NOT design such a frail thing, to have your 1911 magazines failing!
Mr. Browning designed the Browning Hi Power (GP35), and the 1911, with the magazines to withstand, since they were meant to be up to MIL-SPEC, were they not?
Therefore, I can point you towards the late Mr. Camp's Hi Power website "hipowerandhandguns", because he left 2 magazines, both 13 rounders, at full capacity, sitting for 2 years, then took them out to the range. No malfunctions!
I also have this thread from a 1911 forum.
http://forum.m1911.org/archive/index.php/t-22420.html
Do I buy two additional clips and rotate the rounds every week? Just wondering. "
The Great God John Moses Browning did NOT design such a frail thing, to have your 1911 magazines failing!
Mr. Browning designed the Browning Hi Power (GP35), and the 1911, with the magazines to withstand, since they were meant to be up to MIL-SPEC, were they not?
Therefore, I can point you towards the late Mr. Camp's Hi Power website "hipowerandhandguns", because he left 2 magazines, both 13 rounders, at full capacity, sitting for 2 years, then took them out to the range. No malfunctions!
I also have this thread from a 1911 forum.
http://forum.m1911.org/archive/index.php/t-22420.html