1911 for concealed carry

Modified Guns in Ca

Is that law or legal theory of your own? (regarding carrying - or using in any self defense capacity, actually - a modified handgun in California)
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It is neither.

It is advice from my three CCW trainers, Placer County Sheriff Ed Bonner; Sacramento County Sheriff Scott Brown; and my lawyer. The message is very consistent from all of them.

At the risk of getting into politics, I will say that if you use a gun in self defense in CA, you had better have all your I's dotted n T's crossed. Our Attorney General (Kamala Harris) is the most hostile to lawful firearm ownership AG this state has ever had, and that's saying a heck of a lot.

Things like different sights, and grips are okay. But just about anything else - especially anything that affects the trigger action - is strongly ill-advised. The thought process is to not give the prosecution anything they can use that would show aggressive intent on your part.

I hope I never find myself in that position. But all the same, I choose to closely follow the advice of these reputable sources.
 
ferrarif1fan said:
I'm also not a big fan of cocked and locked. I completely understand that most 1911's have the grip safety as a backup if the safety lever were to inadvertently get flipped off. But having a hammer back on a pistol, to me, is just inviting disaster. I live by the adage, "hope for the best but plan for the worst." A cocked and locked pistol opens up a possibility that I just don't have to worry about with other pistol designs.
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The OP wrote that he has an M1991A1. That pistol has a hammer block safety. Even if the thumb safety were to fail AND the grip safety be depressed, the pistol still can't fire unless the trigger is pulled while the grip safety is depressed.
 
I have a Ruger SR1911 (5 inch/steel) and a Sig P238 (mini 1911 w/ out grip safety). The 238 goes in my right front pocket in a Nemesis holster. I carry the 1911 OWB in a speed scabbard under a shirt that's long and loose enough and often carry it open in the same holster. I also carry the 1911 concealed in a Flashbang Capone IWB holster-surprisingly comfortable once set to my liking. I wore it like that today for about 5 hours that included a movie for 2 hours. You don't forget that a gun that size is there, but if your belt is good enough I don't imagine carrying it for 8-10 hours would be a problem.
 
I'm also not a big fan of cocked and locked. I completely understand that most 1911's have the grip safety as a backup if the safety lever were to inadvertently get flipped off. But having a hammer back on a pistol, to me, is just inviting disaster. I live by the adage, "hope for the best but plan for the worst." A cocked and locked pistol opens up a possibility that I just don't have to worry about with other pistol designs.
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If you hunt, think of carrying a cocked and locked 1911 this way - it's no different than carrying your loaded rifle or shotgun with a round in the chamber and the safety on. Everyone that hunts does that, no one has a problem with it, and those guns have what is essentially a single action trigger. In fact, the 1911 in C1 is far safer than a loaded rifle or shotgun in the same condition.
 
I think a Colt Government Model and practically all copies are safe to carry like that (cocked and locked), as well as most similar pistols, like Star automatic pistols. I'd even go out on a limb to suggest that they're all perfectly fine the way they come from the factory and need absolutely no modification for defensive use. I do think some modifications are questionable, however, like extended thumb safeties and oversized magazine releases. A friend once insisted that the .45 auto I had at the time should have an extended thumb safety, so I let him install one. First time I used the pistol, I slit my hand open. If you get one, don't get a sharp one. I also note that Colt and most others offer models with enhanced features and they cost more, too.

The comparison with carrying a hunting rifle or shotgun cocked and locked is weak, unless you always have a long gun with a chambered round. Chances are, nevertheless, a handgun is safer than a long gun because it's probably intended to carry with a chambered round. Some owner's manuals suggest otherwise but others don't say not to. Obviously, you should treat your handgun with the same care you give your good china, although for different reasons.

The biggest disadvantage to a handgun with a chambered round is that it requires or results in additional handling, assuming you unload it for storage. In other words, it's not the chambered cartridge, it's the extra handling that creates risk. It's really a trade off, accepting one sort of risk in dealing with another risk.
 
If you are thinking about a full size all steel 1911 in 45acp,I would advise trying to carry one all day before buying one.
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This. I've carried them before. A while back. I still do randomly, for a few hours. It usually get's it out of my system. They're good to go at 3 o'clock or 4 o'clock OWB. I mainly carry appendix, that's a no go for either a Government Model or a Commander Model. Even my lightweight commander can be a pain in the ass.

The biggest drawback is the capacity. I live in a city. You rarely hear of a person acting alone in most situations. I rather carry my G19 comfortably with double the capacity and 2 spares. Even my P226 at 18+1 with two 20 round spares.


Admittedly: In recent years. I've moved 1911's to strictly range guns because of user error. Being used to SIG's, HK's, and Glock's has forced me to grip really up high on the bore. Sometimes not greatly engaging the grip safety. My hands are huge, mainly thin too... so the safety that I lay my thumb on top of is right against / on my right thumbs lowest joint. Same thing happens with my HK45 lol.... ugh.
 
The comparison with carrying a hunting rifle or shotgun cocked and locked is weak, unless you always have a long gun with a chambered round.
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When you're hunting, you ARE carrying a long gun with a chambered round, cocked and locked, a weapon with a light single action trigger pull and a manual safety. Hmmmm... Sounds very similar to a 1911 in Condition 1.
My point is that no one frets over that or fears the idea of carrying around a loaded hunting rifle or shotgun all day long in the field, but a holstered 1911 in C1 is just too much for some.
 
BlueTrain said:
You are correct, of course. I've never heard of anyone having an accident with a hunting rifle or shotgun.
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Sarcasm is unwarranted. You stated that the comparison between a cocked and locked 1911 and a cocked and locked hunting rifle is invalid. It IS valid. The fact that accidents can happen with either is irrelevant. Firearms "accidents" almost always occur when someone is careless.

A 1911 is a firearm. A hunting rifle is a firearm. Loaded firearms are dangerous. That doesn't mean carrying a 1911 in Condition 1 is inherently more dangerous than carrying other firearms. I don't have statistics, but I suspect more people have had NDs with Glocks in the past ten years than with 1911s.
 
The difference between carrying a cocked and locked 1911 and a hunting rifle in the woods in the same condition is the VERY VISIBLE hammer on the pistol...the visible hammer is what spooks people.

No one usually notices the cocking piece of a bolt action and shotguns usually don't show it. Lever actions w/o a safety are usually carried on half cock in my neck of the woods.

My opinion is do whatever makes you happy. I will carry 1911s cocked and locked. It seems the next safest, practical way is with hammer down on an empty chamber. I do believe the Israeli security forces favor this method so it must have some merit.
 
By all means do whatever makes you happy but you miss the point. How long is hunting season compared with handgun carry season? The sarcasm is there because people have a habit of assuming away certain issues like safety. But did I not say that I believe carrying a Colt Government Model or a copy "cocked and locked" is perfectly safe?

Some of my rifles had very visible hammers, too, by the way.
 
Extended safeties. If you have an extended safety, most thumbreak holsters will move the safety to the fire position. I have 4 different holsters that will do this. Very frustrating. Never happened with my colt CCO, but both of my Kimbers move it.
 
Its not just extended safeties, and/or thumb break holsters. I routinely found the thumb safeties on any 1911 I carried, off at the end of the day.
 
BlueTrain, I agree 100%, there is a difference but as I said, most of the lever rifle hunters I know carry on half cock, if it's a hammer gun. I also have lever rifles and one, a Savage 99 , I carry cocked with the safety on and it's not visible.There are also shotguns with visible hammers.

When it comes to gun safety for any weapon, it's "whats between the ears" that counts more than anything. if the 4 rules, as most of us know what they are, are followed then all will be well whether there is a safety on the gun or not.

I also carry a 1911 cocked and locked. My point was, for the UNINFORMED, the pistol has a more ominous look with the hammer cocked (perceptions) when in reality it is not less safe than any other form of carry. Of course, when carried concealed, who sees it?
 
If only we followed all the rules all the time--and if everyone else did, too.

But you are probably correct in that a cocked and locked .45 auto is perceived as more ominous, the same way an individual with an openly carried handgun is seen to be more ominous or threatening. I have even read of photographers wanting someone to have cocked revolver in their holster for photographic purposes.
 
By all means do whatever makes you happy but you miss the point. How long is hunting season compared with handgun carry season? The sarcasm is there because people have a habit of assuming away certain issues like safety.
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The length of hunting season vs how long/often you carry a handgun isn't the issue. My point, which you can't seem to grasp, was that people who are uncomfortable with a cocked and locked 1911 but don't have an issue with carrying a loaded, "cocked and locked" rifle or shotgun when hunting aren't seeing the similarities between the two - clearly you're not. By pointing out that both are in essentially the same condition (chambered, cocked, safety on), they may feel less apprehensive about the idea of a 1911 in C1.
 
Its not just extended safeties, and/or thumb break holsters. I routinely found the thumb safeties on any 1911 I carried, off at the end of the day.
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Oh my God.. I too have failed to mention that as well. :eek:

It's happened to me about 8 times.:confused:
 
Well, I'm still not so sure. After thinking about it some more, especially after someone mentioning that if it's concealed, it won't bother anyone, I'm almost certain that the sight of a cocked and locked .45 auto doesn't bother most people any more than the sight of any other handgun carried openly by someone who isn't a lawman. In fact, you'd probably have to look very closely to even see the difference.

One reason I've been interested in this thread is because I'm considering purchasing another full-size Colt Government model. I somehow am without one at the moment. I'm leaning towards .38 Super (it's so hard to be different anymore) but I have magazines and ammunition to spare for all calibers. Logic will not enter into this purchase, only desires.
 
BlueTrain, if logic DID enter into it you would probably forget the .38 Super 1911 and get a striker fire pistol with a long trigger squeeze, thumb safety, a mag disconnect, and LCI....

Technically speaking, forget the"what's between the ears" thing, this is the safest style of pistol without question :)
 
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