1911 cocked and unlocked carry

I'm a left and disengaging the safety with my left hand would mean I was Reed Richards from the Fantastic Four.

I beseech ye from the bowels of Jeff Cooper to get an ambi safety.
 
Just order a high quality ambi safety, and appropriate gripa or modify your exisiting right side panel. Safeties are easy to fit
 
As a MP I carried my issued 1911 condition 2 for years. After military I bought a WWII USGI carried it that way also . I could draw cock and fire pretty quick . I am L handed . I have went thru a bunch of those cheap ambi safetys . They won't take constent use of L side practice. Spend the big bucks and get a Wilson or the other brand.
 
As a lefty get an ambitious safety. There is no reason not to. As for one of the earlier posts about having the safety knocked off safe while holstered. I personally have not had this happen but could easily see that being an issue. I make my own (just for me) Kydex holsters that covers my 1911 safety. Matter a fact the last holster I made for my Springfield Loaded actually will set the safety to safe while being holstered. I don't rely on that but it's an added benefit. To think that someone is carrying around a cocked and unlocked 1911 is scary as heck to me. I will put my faith in the safety before I will the half notch.
 
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.....or you can get a .45ACP that matches your current skill set. The Kahr CT45 & CW45 don't use external safeties, and they will use most 1911 magazines.
 
I like to carry a 1911 and also cocked and locked.

I have never been in a fire fight with my pistols but it's common knowledge that street combat puts one's mind at a different level than drawing a pistol at the range.

I think Cooper also opined that there really was no need for any safety on any firearm if one followed the FOUR RULES.

BUT, I know myself, and that said, I also know about Murphy's Law and an accident is waiting to happen the more you give it a chance.
 
Also, consider the potential value of the safety itself as a defensive tool.
With the proliferation of striker-fired pistols without manual safeties, someone unfamiliar with a C 'n' L 1911 might have to take some time to figure out the safety.
It might be far-fetched, but in a gun-grab situation, I think I'd prefer to not have lost control of a gun that can be fired without first manipulating a safety.
 
It might be far-fetched,...
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There are numerous documented cases from police files of an officer's gun being turned on him, and the criminal not knowing how to work the safety, allowing the officer to overcome them.

There are also lots of cases of dead or wounded officers from the same situations. Some think this kind of thing is a good argument for a magazine disconnect, so with the push of a button the gun becomes unfireable.

Personally, I can live without that particular feature.

The bad guy now knowing how to work the safety is a good thing, but one cannot count on it.

What worries me more, is the level of knowledge in younger police. NOT "training", knowledge.

One of those "real" shows I saw not too long ago, a young officer took a DA REVOLVER from a suspect. He did NOT KNOW how to unload it!! The gun was placed on the hood of his car, until his Sgt. (older, more knowledgeable) arrived, who, fortunately did know how to unload it.

I wonder if that same officer would have been baffled by the safety on a 1911A1?? I suspect he would be, as it is so different from his service weapon...;)
 
Have you ever thought about just lowering the hammer.
Now, let's all get it over with.......
Aaahhh, aahhh.
no, no
blah blah.
My family carried a 1911 that way in a car glove compartment for years. Grab the gun, cock the hammer, good to go.
Did the same thing with 30-30's

aah, aah.
no..no...
blah blah.
:cool: Be Cool
 
Great discussion...thanks

First,

Just read through the thread, sounds like you have your mind made up no matter what anyone says...Do you block the non-existent hammer on your M&P or Glock 19 when you reholster?
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I haven't made up my mind on anything. I'm still analyzing the issue, and sought to gather information. I appreciate the cogent discussion here.

My thumb rides the striker locking plate at the rear of the slide, so, basically the same position, yes: How do you holster?

If I'm not mistaken, the M&P grip angle was made similar to the 1911 as well, although this is probably fodder for another thread...

I see the Ed Brown tactical thumb safety at Midway, and I'll buy one when I get my replacement grips. Any 1911 smiths in SoCal out there?

I hadn't considered the retention issue, and I have heard of cases where the officer was saved because the bad guy didn't know how to operate the safety, so that would weigh in favor of the manual safety. However, the weapon will be carried concealed in a level II holster.

Picked up the weapon yesterday, and she is beautiful, wearing nothing but a see-through wrapper and dripping with oil....grrr!

Just weigh the options, do what seems right for you and make up your own mind.
That's what it's for.
Who's to say that anybody else's ideas are better than yours anyway.
Enjoy your new 1911, however you choose to use it.
Just be careful not to put yer eye out.
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Good advice, Mr. Willikers...'nuff said!
 
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One of those "real" shows I saw not too long ago, a young officer took a DA REVOLVER from a suspect. He did NOT KNOW how to unload it!!
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I read about a police training class, where one of the recruits asked how to load rounds from the cylinder into the barrel?
You never know how knowledgeable/experienced people are going to be.
 
A really bad idea just to avoid a ambi safety.

Everyone knows, the 1911 trigger travel is shorter and more instant than Glock (or similar) that'll travel a ways, then build up noticeably more pressure, then let go.

They couldn't really be more different, and the safety'less Glock in no way justifies carrying any other pistol cocked/locked with safety off, particularly a true single-action 1911.
 
Carrying a 1911 cocked and unlocked is not like carrying a Glock or a S&W M&P. It's more like carrying a cocked revolver. In the latter case it's not good practice to do it. No one with any experience would propose running down a street with a cocked revolver in their hand or re-holstering a wheelgun while it was cocked.

Note that the trigger of both the Glock and the M&P have a small feature that prevents the trigger from releasing the striker unless the finger is fully inside the trigger guard. A finger along side the edge of the trigger will not fully cock the striker on a Glock or release it. UDs, when they happen with Glocks and M&Ps, is because they try to re-holster with a finger fully in the trigger guard or when something (a part of the jacket or coat,a drawstring, the holster, etc.) depresses the small tab in the center of the Glock trigger, or forces the finger to depress it. The 1911 has no similar feature.

The grip safety is routinely depressed and deactivated when one grabs the gun. To count on it not being depressed when re-holstering the gun or if you fall while running...is not practical. Because of the grip safety though it may be a bit safer if you drop it than a wheelgun...but as easy to depress the trigger.

The thumb safety was not put there solely for soldiers on horseback. It was there to solve a problem. The problem was that if the soldier had to move from point a-b while running or on horseback and had only the use of one hand how do you make the gun safe so that it does not go off if the soldier falls or too roughly tries to holster a gun that is for all intents and purposes is just like a cocked revolver.

Revolvers are very easy to safely decock while on the run or on horseback, whether single action or da. Browning first made the gun easy for a decock...but it took two hands. So he extended the tang of the grip safety so the gun could be decocked one handed. Better, but trickier than the two hand method and less safe while on a bucking horse or running while under fire across a battlefield (try it with an empty gun and see). So the thumb safety was added. Problem solved.

All of this is to say that carrying a cocked and unlocked 1911 is not such a good idea IMHO.

tipoc
 
My thoughts...

>what happens if the safety is bumped in the on position when you need the gun most and have not trained to drop the safety on your draw?
>you bought the RIA for nostalgic and aesthetic reasons ("plain jane GI") but it doesn’t have a firing pin block. 1911's can discharge if dropped on the muzzle without the block. How likely is the risk probably not much but IMO it doesn’t seem like a good idea to put nostalgic reasons ahead of safety reasons when choosing a carry gun. The practical differences between a classic GI version and a modern 1911 are not much.
>I would agree with you that a cocked and unlocked, "series 80", is just as safe as a safetyless striker fired. But my first thought above negates the idea of putting that in practice.
 
The two 1911s I have have had trigger work, but even with the stock triggers on these guns the triggers would be too sensitive for me to even think of not carrying them locked.

The striker pistol I have almost resembles a two stage pull in comparison even though it is a decent squeeze for a striker.

I know me...I'm prone to blunders and mishaps outside of firearms that are generally harmless but a brain fart with a gun could very well be catastrophic and life changing.

Again, why give Murphy another advantage? If it was me, I would learn to operate the 1911 with safety engaged, after all, the military never made a left handed weapon and lefties had to adapt.
 
The thumb safety was not put there solely for soldiers on horseback.
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Nonetheless, the thumb safety was the request of the US Cavalry...for hasty reholstering when the mounted trooper needed both hands to get control of a horse.

but it doesn’t have a firing pin block. 1911's can discharge if dropped on the muzzle without the block.
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So what?

It has to hit dead vertically on a hard surface when dropped from any realistic height...as in less than 10-12 feet. If a fired bullet struck a vertical concrete wall, it would stop and fall to the ground. At most, it would bounce off and land 3-4 feet away. Why would it behave any differently because it was still inside a barrel when it hit?

About the greatest danger would be flying concrete debris at around shoe level. And if it did happen to fire when dropped on the ground, the bullet would go into the ground. No blood. No foul.

The grip safety...also a cavalry requirement...is a more important drop safety. Because of the heavy, straight-line trigger, the gun could conceivably discharge should it hit the ground muzzle, up...which is more likely than muzzle straight down...endangering both horse and rider. Muzzle down discharge wasn't a great concern.

Cocked, unlocked carry sounds scary, but guns don't "go off" in holsters any more than they go off lying on a table. They only discharge when they're being handled...when the trigger is pulled. A 1911 is no different.

Cocked and unlocked in the holster, the grip safety is still blocking the trigger and the half cock is still there should both hammer hooks shear at the same time, which I've never known to happen in the 50+ years I've spent with the pistol.

And, no. The thumb safety won't block the hammer should both hooks fail.
 
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1911Tuner said:
So what?

It has to hit dead vertically on a hard surface when dropped from any realistic height...
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not disagreeing with you. I just threw that in there in case the OP didn’t know. Some 1911 owners have switched carry guns over the matter, others have not.
 
. I just threw that in there in case the OP didn’t know
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It's just that see that point brought up a lot and just wanted to point out that it's not as great a concern as most people think it is. I think that there's a pretty good chance that the bullet won't make it out of the barrel...and it if would...there wouldn't be enough velocity left to do much damage.
 
1911Tuner said:
It's just that see that point brought up a lot and just wanted to point out that it's not as great a concern as most people think it is. I think that there's a pretty good chance that the bullet won't make it out of the barrel...and it if would...there wouldn't be enough velocity left to do much damage.
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I agree if it did happen it "probably " wouldn’t be life threatening... I don’t think it really matters at all if the bullet would make it out of the barrel, what matters is being in the situation in the first place, will never ever end well. I also agree it not the greatest concern, I would carry one ( "series 70" ) but the point I was trying to convey was that I wouldn’t specifically chose one to purchase as a new dedicated carry gun.
 
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