1911 45 auto
- Thread starter NHSHOOTER
- Start date
“Crap” would be a relative term in this case. Since I spoil myself with the 1911’s I buy, the TISAS feel like relative crap to me and they’re built with cheap labor, so the statements are not “untrue” in my viewpoint.
Sorry you took exception to it.
Not saying they’re bad guns for the money. They just aren’t something I’d spend money on.
I have had a Wilson and now I have a Staccato. If I wanted I have the disposable income to buy an Atlas or similar. Tisas pistols don’t feel like “crap” to me, even if they are made of objectively cheaper materials with less costly labor.
It would be nice if people could just enjoy what they enjoy without seemingly feeling the need to pass judgement on what others buy. This applies to people buying both cheaper and more expensive pistols.
It would be nice if people could just enjoy what they enjoy without seemingly feeling the need to pass judgement on what others buy. This applies to people buying both cheaper and more expensive pistols.
So, if they made the exact same gun, but paid their workers 3x or 5x as much would it feel like a better gun to you??
Cheap labor means what, exactly?? Workers get paid less than US union scale wages??? Consider the fact that cheap labor is not the issue, subpar products come from subpar company standards, no matter what labor costs are.
If you mean unskilled labor, or semi-skilled labor, say that. It doesn't matter if you are making guns or sneakers with some NBA star's name on them, if the product does not meet company quality standards (however high or low they are) the workers get replaced. If things are not made with enough quality to sell then management gets replaced.
IT may BE cheap crap, but automatically assuming it is because of where it is made and who makes it is, I think a poor practice. Now, if your opinion is based on guns you've actually used, or first hand observations, that's a different matter.
Personally, I feel a certain European pistol with a plastic frame is cheap crap. I don't like the look, I don't like the feel, and I don't like the attitude of the maker, they work and are very popular with a lot of people, I think primarily because of the relatively low cost, but that doesn't change the way I feel about them.
On a pistol that was designed over 100 years ago, what defines the “full modern 1911 experience”? If you mean “high end”, as you later state, that’s one thing. There are certainly pistols made with objectively more costly parts and more costly labor, but is that then what defines the “full modern 1911 experience”?
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Guys, these guns aren’t worth my time discussing. If any of you enjoy them, that’s fine. I said multiple times, they are good budget, entry level 1911’s.
I’m fully aware that I’m a gun snob. My handgun collection alone is well over a million dollars in today’s value. Most being collectibles, but I do have a vast collection of modern high end shooters, including dozens of 1911’s and 2011’s. I did this through hard work without anything given to me.
I only say that to illustrate why my judgement can be harsh and/or jaded. While many think the guns I buy are a waste of money, in my eyes buying budget guns are a waste of money, because I’d never shoot them.
It is what it is. Buy what you wish.
I’m fully aware that I’m a gun snob. My handgun collection alone is well over a million dollars in today’s value. Most being collectibles, but I do have a vast collection of modern high end shooters, including dozens of 1911’s and 2011’s. I did this through hard work without anything given to me.
I only say that to illustrate why my judgement can be harsh and/or jaded. While many think the guns I buy are a waste of money, in my eyes buying budget guns are a waste of money, because I’d never shoot them.
It is what it is. Buy what you wish.
bac1023 said:
It’s certainly fair that you don’t want to discuss something. I will remind you that you chose to participate in this thread. In doing so people are naturally going to ask clarifying questions about comments you make. If you can’t or won’t back those up, it strikes me as the kid taking his ball and going home. That’s a subjective view, however.
This would be my idea of a full modern 1911 experience. I have some vintage collectible 1911's that I didn't include.
Infinity Tiki, S&W Koenig PC1911, Ruger Koenig Compeition, Cabot National Standard, Cabot Nero, Cabot Vintage Classic, ACW Prime, RRA Limited Match, RRA Limited Match
Ed Brown Evo 9, Ed Brown FX1, Ed Brown Kobra Carry, Ed Brown Special Forces, Pistol Dynamics Signature, Nighthawk Agent 2, Nighthawk Bull, Nighthawk Tri Cut Carry, Nighthawk Firehawk
Springfield Custom TGO1, Springfield Custom Professional, Wilson EDC X9L, Wilson Vickers Elite, Wilson CQB Elite, Guncrafter BC-17 Hellcat, Guncrafter Model 2, Les Baer American Handgunner, Les Baer Monolith Heavyweight
Here's my idea of the full 2011 experience, though I'm still awaiting my Pit Viper.
Staccato XC, Staccato XL, Rogue Alpha, Nighthawk TRS Comp
Triarc Tri-11, Atlas Hyperion, Atlas Titan, TTI Combat Master
Infinity Doubkke Stack, Limcat Wildcat, Limcat Wildcat, Phoenix Trinity Honcho
It’s nice that you have such a large collection, but that’s just a list of things you own. While I applaud that you have earned the money to afford such a collection, the value of which you have mentioned twice, you don’t actually state what features make those the “full modern 1911 experience”. So then is it that the only way another person can have the “full modern 1911 experience” is to purchase as many and as expensive 1911s as yourself?
Back up what? UI don't need to back up anything.
If it helps, I have owned both Turkish and Filipino 1911's in the past. In fact, I owned several Filipino models along with one Turkish model.
That was about 10 years ago, but I've handled several new Tisas and Girsan 1911's to know what I'm looking at. I don't feel they're bad guns for the money, if that's how you choose to spend.
I shoot every model pictured, to include some local matches.
The modern 1911 experience to me is to experience the top performing models. If you disagree, so be it. I see too many people judge the platform negatively and all they own or had owned was entry level stuff. I see it all the time on the forums and in person. The starting point in my eyes would be at least a Dan Wesson. If you can't afford that, best to go to another platform as far as I'm concerned.
I didn’t claim you didn’t shoot them.
The original comment is how you stated that someone owning a Tisas cannot experience the “full modern 1911 experience”. To me that would indicate features that these pistols have that fundamentally change the shooting experience. It would seem that to you that fundamentally different experience is the cost of the parts and the labor and the impact those have on the resulting quality of the pistol. Then I guess people who cannot own these pistols will sadly not get to have this experience, given that many here have admitted to not being able to afford as much, including the OP in asking for recommendations of a 1911 that they could afford.
You say people will judge the platform negatively based on negative experiences with entry level stuff. Yet ironically the people that owned Tisas pistols seem to have had positive experiences, at least in this thread. The only one that seems negative on the platform based on those entry level models is yourself, who admittedly hasn’t owned a Turkish 1911 in 10 years.
With all due respect, I don't need to own a new Tisas to have an opinion of what they are and how they're built. Been shooting 1911's for over 30 years. Most experienced people don't need to buy a gun to have an opinion. I don't buy anything in that price rang, other than my polymer "tools".
Its not about features. Cheap 1911's can be totally decked out with features. Its about fit, finish, trigger feel, accuracy, smoothness, etc, etc.
By the way, people like them, because they're affordable and they work. Nothing wrong with that if that's your criteria. However, I know several people who frown on the 1911 platform with only ever owning models that cost no more than the plastic gun they're carrying. It happens.
You certainly can have an opinion without owning something. It my opinion that does impact the legitimacy of that opinion, but, as you yourself have said, that’s just an opinion.
I don’t doubt it does happen that people have a negative opinion from having bad experiences. My point is per this thread it hasn’t happened with these Tisas owners, in fact the opposite, so in this context it doesn’t seem overly relevant. I have also had issues personally with Colt, S&W, Springfield, and even a Wilson 1911. While issues can certainly be more common on the low end, more expensive options aren’t immune either.
Yes, expansive 1911's can certainly have issues. I never have had any, but a good friend of mine had to send his Nighthawk in to be smoothed out because it locked up.
My point is buying the least expensive example of any design is generally not the way to experience the platform and why its so popular. That's what Turkish guns are, cheap clones, whether it be a 1911 or otherwise. Not my cup of tea at all. Like I said, Dan Wesson is what I consider a good starting point for a quality 1911.
Unfortunately for some that’s the only way they will ever get to experience one platform or another. Not everyone has the luxury of a larger disposable income and the opportunities it affords. Given that many people on this thread were able to have seemingly positive experiences with a Tisas, I wouldn’t personally rule it out if I was the OP. I think your caution is fair, however, so thank you for affording us your time to explain, even if the pistols are not worth it.
...and that's fair, in my opinion. I'm not saying they aren't nicer than some of the lower end American models.
I personally only buy American 1911's, but that's me.
I do own a ton of foreign handguns. In fact, most my collection is comprised of guns made abroad. If Turkey churned out more than just low cost clones of proven designs, I might be more interested. That's what their game is though.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
The reality today is that cheap labor just means the guy putting the raw frame into the CNC machine in Turkey gets paid less than the guy putting the raw frame into a CNC machine in West Hartford or Pigeon Forge gets paid.44 AMP said: