15 +1 magazine

To each his own. Whatever you like. IDPA does not training make!

But it is a safe way to shoot, move, and take up different shooting positions.

All possible components of a real gun fight. Also most target engagement, is fire twice. The double tap for multiple targets being a good idea.

If you play the game, for it is a game, with the same gun, same ammo, same holster, needing your CCW Pistol at O-Dark 30 (in my case, 9-30!) has no surprises. Except that loud explosion, with no ear muffs!
 
If you play the game, for it is a game, with the same gun, same ammo, same holster, needing your CCW Pistol at O-Dark 30 (in my case, 9-30!) has no surprises.
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Except in a real engagement you don't get to walk through the course beforehand or have the fight explained to you beforehand. You have to be able to think and react quickly. I'd add that standing behind some artificial barrier isn't the same as having cover or even using that cover effectively. I imagine you also don't download your mags to 10 rds just to keep it fair.

I am not opposed to IDPA, and you're right that marksmanship and movement are fundamentals that will always be important. My point is, as you said, it's a game. And there's a pretty big difference between that game and what I would consider realistic training.
 
Brit said:
Spats, with all respect. The rounds in your G19, that one fires, each time you press the trigger? Not to fully load your life saving pistol, is not a good idea.

The rounds in your gun, they are your life saving 9mm life jackets. . . . .
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No offense taken, Brit.

I understand that my life depends on those bullets, but we all make compromises in what and how we carry. I don't find it to be too much of a hassle to carry a G19 or an extra mag, but finding a spot for that extra round every time I have to unload to go to the range bugs me. (I'm not saying that's logical, mind you. . . ) I also figure (without knowing for certain) that the engineers designed the pistol to run with 15, not necessarily 15+1, and I figure (and do know this for certain) that they know more about engineering than I do.

Brit said:
In simulated fights IDPA, the Stage can call for a reload! And you are lying on your mag pouch! Of course, this is a game with rules, 11 rounds is the max. you can start with.

Even a magazine change, standing, with being concealed can be a problem.
As you are expected to be in cover at the same time.
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I do wish I had more time and a larger budget to shoot IDPA. It sounds like great fun. But if I get caught in a gunfight, I'm going to have, at most, one mag change. If my gun jams after the 4th round (Heaven forbid), it will be after the fourth round. If I make it through a magazine, it'll be after the 15th round, or the 16th, if I were to top off. The reality, though, is that I carry 1 extra mag, so that's all the mag changes I'm going to get to do.
 
Shooting IDPA, you know in the back of your mind, it's a game and no one is shooting back at you. It's a controlled environment. You are prepared to run the course.

There is nothing even remotely similar to that in a real environment shooting situation in real time, that can catch you off-guard.
 
This is great. I personally have my Glock 19 mags loaded with 15. 3 times/week
I empty my mags and reload them in no special order. I got the dilemma from the FL about changing the mags on any pistol every so often.

Yes, I can carry one or 2 spare mags. Just depends where I am or going. At my age, I do not want any screw-ups.
 
One option you might consider is a separate set of carry mags from the mags you use at the range, if you don't do that already. While we've had this debate a lot on this forum the general consensus seems to be that loading and unloading a magazine causes more wear on the spring than leaving them loaded. With my carry magazines I leave them loaded and they just stay that way (this is after I ran about a hundred rounds through each just to make sure there were no hickups when new). Every 6 months or so I shoot off the ammo in them and reload with new. That said I also live in a place that's not overly humid. If I lived in a much more humid place I might change carry ammo more often just out of an overabundance of caution (most modern ammo is well sealed and should last a long time).
 
I don't have a Glock and my pistol is hammer fired, so disregard if this is irrelevant. I have a SAR K2P with a 16 round mag and a 19 round mag. I tend to load the 19 round to the max and drop one in the chamber for an even 20 rounds. The 16 round mag only gets 15. It all comes down to a little OCD. I like the multiples of 5. Keeps the round count easier to track, ammo boxes neater, and it works for my range routine. The 19 round mag requires a bump for it to seat regardless of being max loaded or not.
 
It is so different, a gun fight, or a boxing match? But there are similarity's.

A boxing match has rules, a gun fight does not.

When I boxed, as a kid, we were watched by the hardest Catholic Priest, I had ever met Father Kelly, who ran Lowe House Boxing Club in St Helens Lancashire UK. His nose was flat! He taught boxing, but also talked fighting!

Working as a Bouncer in Liverpool UK, from 1960 till 1965, part time work, paid in cash. I used two punches I was taught to throw, a straight left (The nose breaker) a right hook, aimed to clip the jaw, at the low left side of your opponent! (Never failed, the nite-nite punch)

It seems to me, that reality training, late nights, with no rules, was as close as you can get to real survival skill training. (I got stabbed twice though!)

The lesson you learned, or ended up in hospital, or worse, was the instant, explosive attack mode. It was to take away the access, think, move part.
And replace that thought process, with strike, and multiple antagonists were more the norm than the one on one of the movies. This part could be taken into firearms use, instant draw and fire. Then take the ride to the Hospital!
Trust me, your BP will be through the roof.

As you did not work on your own, trust in your partner was paramount.

All kicks, and punches, had to take some one down. And you never grabbed anyone. You were anchored that way. Not done that way now.

This was the 60s!
 
Oh yes. The best (the ones you win are good stories) was me in an Indian Restaurant in St Helens, Lancashire. In 1968, a return to England for My Mothers Funeral.

All started with my Wife (I have a new one now, for 26 years) making a comment to 3 scruffs, two Girls, one guy, all drunk. Nine 30 on a Friday night.

Ended up with 4 young men, early 20s, me at 33 years of age. Taking a visit to a local Hospital, Emerg. As they say in that area. The Bobbies who responded, traced these Gents to this outpatients Dept. One had a Radio, on his jacket.

He read from his note book, after looking at me carefully? Looking for signs I had been in a fight?

"These 4 ruffians (My description) have sustained the following Injury's"

"4 broken ribs, same person, two broken noses, one broken arm, and various
cuts, and contusions"

We 4 were escorted to our rented Volkswagen, given advice about trying a different venue. My useless Brother In Law, did not stop shaking for an hour.

Great story.
 
Brit said:
Spats, with all respect. The rounds in your G19, that one fires, each time you press the trigger? Not to fully load your life saving pistol, is not a good idea.

The rounds in your gun, they are your life saving 9mm life jackets.
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Your logic is impeccable.

That said, it would appear that most civilian self-defense shootings seldom involve more than 3-4 rounds fired by the person defending himself or herself. And it's a VERY UNUSUAL one where more than 5 or 6 self-defense rounds are fired -- let alone 15. (I don't think I've ever heard of such a case.) But you're probably not planning for the most likely situation, you're trying to be ready for a worst-case scenario.

Military or LEO shoots are different, with more rounds fired once the gun's out of the holster. Service pistols are designed with military/law enforcement applications in mind, and that calls for more rounds in the magazine. That such weapons end up in civilian hands is understandable and inevitable (at least here in the U.S.)

If being concerned about that is valid, and important extra life insurance, why not just use a Glock 17 mag with a mag spacer ($12-$15)? That lets you add TWO MORE important rounds to the mix (and still do a +1 if you need it), and it only adds a bit less than 3/4" to the gun's grip length. If one more round is good, why wouldn't three more rounds be much better?

.
 
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With single stacks, and sub compact double stacks it's full mag inserted, release slide to chamber a round, remove, and top off mag before re-inserting.
With something using a 15 round mag I figure if you have gotten yourself into a situation needing 15 rounds, one more is not likely to make a difference.
 
My post was written to address this thought. After all's said and done, would that 16th. round damage the magazine in a 15 plus 1 mag. I never have loaded my Glock any way but 15 rounds period. I think that it's been addressed properly, to my satisfaction.
Thank you all.:cool:
Doc
 
Magazines are not the problem they used to be.

Case in point, the Police Body Guard for Princess Margaret in London England, one shot fired, no more coming up to follow that one, Walther PPK? so end of that altercation for the Police Officer.

If memory serves me right (Old guy) A retired boxer jumped in and laid the nut case out!

My Glock magazines, stay loaded, always work.
 
Brit said:
Spats, with all respect. The rounds in your G19, that one fires, each time you press the trigger? Not to fully load your life saving pistol, is not a good idea.
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So, umm, I rotated my carry mags the other night. I unloaded my carry mag . . . and guess who discovered that he'd apparently topped off with the +1 round last time? :o
 
I shoot all my pistols a lot on a regular basis, I've always topped them off with an extra round and have never experienced any malfunctions. So in my experience I see no reason not to do it.
 
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